TP+FD OOP with 200bb stacks

CO has been running at about 17/12/2, but has raised everytime it has folded around to him.

Button has been a call centre pre-flop, loosely calling raises and re-raises, but I haven't seen many of his hands post flop. He's running at 33/4/0.25

A call pre-flop may be a better play here, but I generally re-raise most hands out of the blinds if I'm going to play them facing a raise.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $159.34
UTG+1: $268
CO: $191.75
Button: $380.83
Hero: $516.25
BB: $205

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with :kh: :qh:
2 folds, CO raises to $8, Button calls, Hero raises to $29, 2 folds, Button calls.

Flop: :9h: :4h: :kd: ($68, 2 players)
Hero bets $49, Button calls.

Turn: :js: ($166, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $52, Hero ??

make it 225 and call a push

what do you think you should do

If this was 100bb's deep, I would have probably just lead this turn strong, or check pushed.

On the turn, however, there weren't that many top pair hands by villain that I thought I could beat. I wasn't entirely sure that he was calling sooo loose that he would show up with K10 or worse here.

Is this still a push? or try getting to showdown cheaply?

That turn bets is weak. Not too sure what to make of it. I think I go for the cheap showdown unless the river improves us.

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

That turn bets is weak. Not too sure what to make of it. I think I go for the cheap showdown unless the river improves us.

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Yah I thought it was pretty weak too, so I didn't know what to make of it!

He's so passive that I'd imagine he'd check through some kind of flush draw here.

I mean, I'm never folding here. its just a matter of if its better to flat call this deep or push, against a passive villain.

I raise any to any dollar amount that commits you.

Mis-read the hand. Didn't realize you ended up against the loose passive button. I guess call or raise depends on if you think he's capable of having less than AK here. Has he called a lot of reraises like this? I still don't see a hand you're beating currently calling a turn bet so what's the point in raising here? Does he chase flush draws far?

I call turn and c/c non-heart river. Any Q and any heart and it's all in time. I'm think I'm too weak though.
I like c-luvin's aggression, but here I don't get it. I think only better hands call you down there and I don't think you have enough fold equity to fold out better hands on that board, especially with one card to come. Therefore, I like a turn call and c/c river with your underrepped hand. An extra card isn't going to hurt you as much as help you here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Mis-read the hand. Didn't realize you ended up against the loose passive button. I guess call or raise depends on if you think he's capable of having less than AK here. Has he called a lot of reraises like this? I still don't see a hand you're beating currently calling a turn bet so what's the point in raising here? Does he chase flush draws far?

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I haven't seen down many of villain's hands post-flop yet. The only hand I saw was one where I raised AQclubs EP, MP caller and he called A7 off on the button.

Flop came 775, two clubs. I lead out, both players called. I checked turn, MP bet and button flat called and I pushed and obviously he called. So he's pretty passive, not raising trips on any street, even with the flush draw out.

As for how far he'd go with a draw, not enough reads to know this.

Not much has been said about my turn check. How good/bad is my check there in this spot?

your check is meh, idk normally someone versus someone passive when im have this strong of a madehand/draws im potting it.

this is more interesting than i first thought.
AK makes alot of sense for this guy especially after reading your second hand against him (showing how passive he is). alot of passive fish wont 3 bet AK pre and smooth calling your 3 bet makes sense with AK too. the what i first thought was weakness on the turn seems more like donkstrength to me now.
to continue with this hand you have to be very disipined though. if you have a strong enough read on him that he has AK here to just call the turn bet you have to be willing to lay down to a ~100$ river bet that hell make with AK.
ugh with that said its so hard for me to say dont raise this turn when you have FE + strong hand + two draws to basically the nuts in a 3 bet pot deep.

also i like a lead for 100 on this turn cuz your pretty sure your not gunna get raised if villian is this passive.

Why do we want to lead $100 in to a $166 dollar pot where we think we might be behind and doing so will give us no info?

"Button has been a call centre pre-flop, loosely calling raises and re-raises, but I haven't seen many of his hands post flop. He's running at 33/4/0.25"

why do we think we are behind we have a very strong hand. The only thing that made me think we were behind before was his turn bet and if we lead we never see that turn bet.

OK, that makes more sense. You think you're ahead here.
I don't think KT- plays this to a PF 3bet even if he's a calling station, but it's not my read. He looks like KJ+ or nut flush draw to me. Our preflop 3bet put us in an akward position in a bloated pot.

Something to consider is that this guy isn't a reg and probably doesn't want to lose a 400 dollar stack here.

An AK for the villain would have to be very certain we are on AA or KK here to fold this hand. I don't think he can put us there considering he is holding an A and a K. I guess 99 or JJ is a possiblity, but I'm not folding AK here. I think a push has little fold equity against hands we are not already beating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

An AK for the villain would have to be very certain we are on AA or KK here to fold this hand. I don't think he can put us there considering he is holding an A and a K. I guess 99 or JJ is a possiblity, but I'm not folding AK here. I think a push has little fold equity against hands we are not already beating.

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yah I agree... I didn't think a check push on this turn would have much fold equity.

Seems like most people are thinking I should slow down here on the turn, and go into check call mode.

But alas.. I have a hard time not getting it all in with TP+FD.

I checked and pushed over his weak turn bet.

He called ...

with K7 off lol

River was a pretty Q anyhow, shiiiiiiiip it!

Though given the feedback, I might slowdown in this kind of spot next time, until I have stronger reads. I didn't expect to see K7 off, thats for sure. But I guess thats all I could have been hoping for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Seems like most people are thinking I should slow down here on the turn, and go into check call mode.

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most people were saying push if anything... lol. I'd say it was half and half at least!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Massimo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Seems like most people are thinking I should slow down here on the turn, and go into check call mode.

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most people were saying push if anything... lol. I'd say it was half and half at least!

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lol.. yah you're right. your push vote made it 3-2.. and gabe's post sounded like "why are you posting this? this is an auto-push" .. so 4-2.. plus my push makes it 5-2.

insta-push it is! (based on this very large sample)