WTF does this mean??

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05-02-2007, 07:37 PM
2_Thumbs_Up

WTF does this mean??

Villain is 30/4/3, seems OK post-flop.

Texas Hold'em $2-$4 NL (real money), hand #271,380,954
Table Lubumbashi, 2 May 2007 8:02 PM ET

Seat 3: Villain ($229.15 in chips)
Seat 4: 2 Thumbs Up [ :Th:,:As: ] ($197.00 in chips)
Seat 6: x winnerAA ($269.40 in chips)
Seat 8: hdm87 ($89.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Fenix17 ($387.80 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Villain posts blind ($1), 2 Thumbs Up posts blind ($2).

PRE-FLOP
x winnerAA folds, hdm87 folds, Fenix17 folds, Villain calls $1, 2 Thumbs Up bets $6, Villain calls $6.

FLOP [board cards :Ah:,:6s:,:8s: ]
Villain checks, 2 Thumbs Up checks.

TURN [board cards :Ah:,:6s:,:8s:,:6h: ]
Villain checks, 2 Thumbs Up bets $13, Villain bets $35, 2 Thumbs Up calls $22.

RIVER [board cards :Ah:,:6s:,:8s:,:6h:,:3s: ]
Villain bets $60, 2 Thumbs Up folds.

SHOWDOWN
Villain wins $143.

SUMMARY
Dealer: Fenix17
Pot: $146, (including rake: $3)
Villain bets $103, collects $143, net $40
2 Thumbs Up loses $43
x winnerAA loses $0
hdm87 loses $0
Fenix17 loses $0

This has happened to me several times in a few days. I've seen it very rarely before. I'm the Pf raiser, check behind on the flop and gets check raised on the turn. What kind of hand would he have to try a second c/r? Did the turn help him? I don't see how. I'm totally lost as to what he has.
05-02-2007, 08:04 PM
UG

"I don't think he has a strong ace or a huge hand, if he did he would have bet the flop with such a flushy board. I don't have a big hand either, so I'll check the turn too.....ohh, he bets now, huh? Well he obviously doesn't have a strong ace, maybe I'll do a check-raise and win it right now. He calls? Whoops. If I want to win this pot I better fire out on the river! Whew, he folded. He probably had crap anyway."

Or something like that.

Maybe if you're seeing this move quite a bit more, your question shouldn't be "WTF does this mean?" Your question should be "why does this weird play keep happening to me," and *then* WTF does this mean?
05-03-2007, 02:15 AM
sauce123

bet flop get info make monies
05-03-2007, 09:49 AM
I Like Pie

Looks like he had nothing and just took a shot at representing the 6 and gave up after you didn't buy into it.
05-03-2007, 10:35 AM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

Looks like he had nothing and just took a shot at representing the 6 and gave up after you didn't buy into it.

how did he give up? He bet the river.
05-03-2007, 10:39 AM
Silly String

2 spades does this, or an 8 that doesn't believe you have an A.
05-03-2007, 11:33 AM
Rondavu

Why don't you just call? There's a good chance you're ahead.
05-03-2007, 12:09 PM
biondino

This looks just like the kind of bluffy line that is encouraged on FTR! He saw weakness in your play and attacked it on two streets. He got it spot on.
05-03-2007, 05:06 PM
I Like Pie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

Looks like he had nothing and just took a shot at representing the 6 and gave up after you didn't buy into it.

how did he give up? He bet the river.

haha, I read it wrong, was thinking Hero bet $60 and Villain folded
too early in the morning for me to be posting
05-03-2007, 07:23 PM
Genitruc

It's close but not terrible I don't think

I usually call since you're asking yourself to get bluffed taking the line you did

edit : what cards would have allowed you to call a bet on the river? Personally I'm more worried about a heart than a spade falling...
05-03-2007, 07:43 PM
2_Thumbs_Up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

It's close but not terrible I don't think

What do you put him on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

I usually call since you're asking yourself to get bluffed taking the line you did

edit : what cards would have allowed you to call a bet on the river? Personally I'm more worried about a heart than a spade falling...

I'm definitely with you on the heart. I have no idea what need to call though. I think he has an ace close to never so my kicker should barely matter. When I called turn I figured he would check the river. When he didn't I got puzzled.
05-03-2007, 07:52 PM
Genitruc

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

It's close but not terrible I don't think

What do you put him on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

I usually call since you're asking yourself to get bluffed taking the line you did

edit : what cards would have allowed you to call a bet on the river? Personally I'm more worried about a heart than a spade falling...

I'm definitely with you on the heart. I have no idea what need to call though. I think he has an ace close to never so my kicker should barely matter. When I called turn I figured he would check the river. When he didn't I got puzzled.

For the simple reason that you "played scared" of the ace I'd say his range can be pretty huge here.

I don't put him on spades since if he missed a flop CR with spades he'd typically lead the turn hoping to take the pot down right there.

I'd say his range includes lots of crap like J9, Q10, K9, etc... so obv 6x is part of it also.

The 6x becomes less likely because most avg players would simply play scared of the flush after you flat-called the turn CR (putting you possibly on a flush draw that got there).

A good thinking villain would never put you on spades since you didn't bet the flop after raising preflop.