my GOD I suck. I'm awful. Totally awful.

Woa.

Um. Some of these I have "reasons" for based on reads, but theyre still fucking terrible.

Im hoping I can embarass myself into not losing so fucking much. But I dont know. I really suck. My biggest 5 or 6 i cant remember losses from the last 2.5k hands, were all entirely my fucking fault. WEEEE! Here they are!

See... but if I didnt do these... I dont think I'd be up UP any money anyway. I guess maybe a little but not much. I dont know. I guess I just dont "get" NL yet. I dont see where the money is coming from (Other than making people do stupid shit like I do, but most people dont DO the stupid shit I do) Blah. Frustrated.

Anyway, on with public embarasment.

god I suck.



Read: This guy is a 40/30 moroniac, and I really thought I was ahead against the FD. I was right, but w/e its still fucking dumb and I was only 50/50 against his FD+2OCs anyway.

******* Hand 1 ********

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $200
UTG+1: $32.35
CO: $317.97
Button: $197.60
Hero: $150.60
BB: $68.33

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 6 :spade: 4 :spade:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO raises to $4, Button folds, Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 5 :diamond: 8 :club: 6 :club: ($30, 2 players)
Hero bets $18, CO raises to $66, Hero raises all-in $136.6, CO calls.

Turn: 5 :club: ($303.2, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $303.2)


River: 9 :club: ($303.2, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $303.2)


Results:
Final pot: $303.2


Read: Guy is an even bigger moroniac than the one before this - Off the top of my head I think he ran like 80/50. Still cant do this with Ace fucking Three. (I did take about $600 off him alone a few days ago by just calling him down, though)

******* Hand 2 ********

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $123.85
CO: $105.50
Button: $39.20
SB: $46.65
Hero: $68.33
Hero: $212.05

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with A :diamond: 3 :club:
UTG folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 7 :spade: A :spade: 7 :diamond: ($3, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, CO raises to $14, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 5 :heart: ($31, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $31, Hero calls.

River: 2 :heart: ($93, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO is all-in $59.5, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $212

I try and play better than I'm capable of. Stupidity abounds.

******* Hand 3 ********

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
BB: $68.33
UTG: $226.75
CO: $187.58
Button: $99.50
Hero: $191.65
BB: $126.77

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with K :club: 7 :club:
UTG raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: 8 :club: 3 :club: 3 :heart: ($9, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6, Hero calls.

Turn: J :spade: ($21, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $13, Hero raises to $35, UTG calls.

River: A :spade: ($91, 2 players)
Hero bets $60, UTG calls.

Results:
Final pot: $211

I misread the board. Thought it was 9222 not 9223. Oops. Still incredibly fucking stupid.

******* Hand 4 ********

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $51.80
UTG+1: $99.13
CO: $68.85
Button: $103.50
SB: $251.30
Hero: $101.80

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with K :club: 9 :club:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: 3 :spade: 9 :diamond: 2 :heart: ($2.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $4, Hero raises to $16, UTG+1 raises to $32, Hero calls.

Turn: 2 :club: ($66.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $14, Hero raises all-in $68.8, UTG+1 calls all-in $52.13.
Uncalled bets: $2.67 returned to Hero.

River: Q :club: ($198.76, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $198.76)


Results:
Final pot: $198.76

Ok I dont really hate this last one so much. SB had been farking with me the entire night. He just turned up with a K this time.

******* Hand 5 ********

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $86.45
CO: $116.52
Hero: $98
SB: $251.3
SB: $140.05
BB: $220.65

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 7 :club: 8 :heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $8, BB folds, Hero raises to $36, SB calls.

Flop: 8 :diamond: K :club: K :heart: ($73, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero is all-in $62, SB calls.

Turn: 4 :spade: ($197, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $197)


River: A :heart: ($197, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $197)


Results:
Final pot: $197

I think this one was OK. I put him on the draw when he minraised flop and I was correct. He just happened to have an A as well.

******* Hand 6 ********

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $112.80
UTG+1: $77.02
CO: $81.80
Button: $269.65
SB: $105.30
BB: $222.02

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with T :spade: K :spade:
Hero raises to $4, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: K :diamond: 8 :heart: 6 :heart: ($13.5, 3 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG+1 raises to $16, Button folds, Hero raises all-in $108.8, UTG+1 calls all-in $57.02.
Uncalled bets: $35.78 returned to Hero.

Turn: A :spade: ($159.54, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $159.54)


River: A :club: ($159.54, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $159.54)


Results:
Final pot: $159.54

1 : Vs a maniac this is a good play. Don't beat yourself up. Even if he had AA w Ac you had decent equity + you fold out all of the bluffs he's making.

2 : Standard. Board came perfectly for your call-down line. One thing to ask yourself is if he was maniacal postflop or preflop... If it's the latter and not the former, then the river is close.

3 : VNH if villain is a thinking player. If villain is a donk, then it's a spew.

4 : Flop 3-bet is a mistake unless you want to get it all in.

5 : Fine.

6 : Not completely horrible but a more +ev line is calling the flop then getting AI on a non-heart turn.

If these are your "spews" then you should check out my DB...

I don't mean to sound preachy but, as a sidenote, I'd suggest you not waste your energy berating yourself. All that does is waste time and strength you could be using to work on your game by pitching into a black hole of shitty karma.

Keep working on your game, be patient with yourself and the results will follow.

you suck because you dont have the discipline for poker it seems. its evident in these hands and in the way you conduct yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

you suck because you dont have the discipline for poker it seems. its evident in these hands and in the way you conduct yourself.

---

Meh, I get bitchy and vent in FTR at times. Claiming i have no discipline is silly - I grinded out 1bb/100 from 0.05/0.10 until 10/20 LHE.. that takes obscene discipline. I may not have the discipline for NL yet, which i guess is a valid point. I probably dont.

Genitruc
I appreciate the post, and maybe I'm not as bad as I think, that's a good thing to be wrong about but youre utterly failing in shaming me into playing better :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

you suck because you dont have the discipline for poker it seems. its evident in these hands and in the way you conduct yourself.

---

why does everyone always rag on Euph? I mean, yes you get your point across well but it seems like people say shit on here they would never say in person to anyone, ever.
I mean it can feel horrible to be a losing money and fucking sucking and know it. Give him a break to do some venting, as far as I know Euph has had tons of highs and lows with NL, it's been a big struggle. Just a thought.

anyways np.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-53415.htm
lol

hand 1: i dont mind mixing up a 3-bet from the blinds occaisionally, and even taking a stab at the flop, but after he raises just get out. Theres no reason to push here.

hand 2: fold the flop. fold the turn. fold the river.

hand 3: not horrible. i would be more inclined to raise the flop than the turn though.

hand 4: standard if you thought you had a boat.

hand 5: fine.

hand 6: i generally see this line as a draw so i dont hate it.

i play in these same games, and you just cant make alot of plays at people. The site as a whole is so loose/passive that you just need to see alot of flops in position and be aggressive. You WILL get paid off when you have a hand and you just need the patience to wait for them.

I have to say, somewhat to my surprise, that I think Genitruc is far too generous here (Bode-ist, however, is on the money). Raises, bets on multiple streets and calls of re-raises almost always mean something at this level, almost always, even from a 40/30 (whose stats are potentially useless/misleading post-flop). Pushes like the one in hand one are almost only ever worthwhile with dollops of fold equity, and I just don't see how you have enough - what hand could he possibly have where he'll fold a 3:1 shot?

Hand 2 makes my skin crawl. Not the flop, not really the turn, but the river call. It's like above, but the other way round - he can't believe he has much fold equity (unless you have a missed draw, in which case he doesn't need to bet nearly so much), yet he still sticks it in. He'd need both balls the size of watermelons and a loose grasp on betting odds to three-barrel-bluff here - and any genuine hand he does have beats yours. Your river call SCREAMS of tilt to me, because I recognise it all too well.

(Oh, I forgot to add in hand 1 - wtf are you doing playing like this OOP? It'd be a lot less spewy with position on your side.)

Hand 3 isn't as cut and dried. After he calls you on the turn I just don't think you have enough FE to put in another $60. You are repping genuine hands which make sense, but only 33/A3/AJ, and this guy clearly has something - almost certainly an overpair from his position/bet (QQ maybe?).

The river bet is definitely a threat to him if he does have QQ, but your line is a bit too suspicious to oblige him to fold considering the way the cards fell.

General advice that fixes all your leaks.
1. Stop raising marginal holdings
2. Stop raising marginal holdings
3. Stop raising marginal holdings
4. Start folding when you have marginal holdings and facing strength.

That sums it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

you suck because you dont have the discipline for poker it seems. its evident in these hands and in the way you conduct yourself.

---

why does everyone always rag on Euph? I mean, yes you get your point across well but it seems like people say shit on here they would never say in person to anyone, ever.
I mean it can feel horrible to be a losing money and fucking sucking and know it. Give him a break to do some venting, as far as I know Euph has had tons of highs and lows with NL, it's been a big struggle. Just a thought.

anyways np.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-53415.htm
lol

---

if u cant take a comment on a message board then how are you supposed to survive poker. he was asking for it when he started this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by biondino

Hand 2 makes my skin crawl. Not the flop, not really the turn, but the river call.

---

I'm pretty sure if he's folding this hand it needs to be on the turn or the flop. I think once you call 31 on the turn you have to call any river. I don't get how his range could radically change from the turn to the river.

1. um yeah. Don't 3bet 64 out of position vs this guy. You are gonna be profitably threebetting tons of hands here (such as KJ+ AT+ 88+), so theres no need to get retarded with complete trash. With position maybe you can 3bet something this crap but oop go with some top pair hands. Bet more on the flop vs this guy, your weak bet might have induced a raise. Probably fold to the raise. Who cares about postflop, your big mistake here was preflop. You allowed an aggressive player to play a threebet pot with the best hand and position on you.

2. Fold the turn, and maybe even the flop. Thats a big ass raise on the flop. Also, don't go broke in limped pots EVER with a hand this crappy, i don't care who villain is. You just don't have a good enough latch on players at this level (since they play so unpredictably) to make calldowns like this in limped pots.

3. Lol, why would you ever do anything here but fold preflop. The fact that you are deep with him is beyond irrelevant. I think if i were to bluff the turn i'd donk bet. he's betting a small enough amount where you can just call once you check i think. I guess the river is ok, I'd have probably bet a little more, like 75, or just checked and given up.

4. Stop threebetting the flop with one pair hands. Stop going broke in limped pots with crappy hands.

5. Call the 4 dollars preflop. You probably could and should go your entire stay at 100nl without ever 4bet bluffing preflop. Its an incredibly high variance play, and its only plus ev in very aggressive games.

6. No need to play this hand preflop. STOP THREEBETTING THE FLOP WITH ONE PAIR VS PASSIVE AND BAD PLAYERS.


btw posting results sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

you suck because you dont have the discipline for poker it seems. its evident in these hands and in the way you conduct yourself.

---

QFT.

Confidence is pretty much the most important thing to have at any given time. Telling yourself you suck and acting like you are helpless you've got no chance man. I wish I found this out a while ago because I used to have confidence problems, but as soon as I stopped being a little bitch about it my results improved ten-fold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aislephive

as soon as I stopped being a little bitch about it my results improved ten-fold.

---

not many people would man up and say this but good stuff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by biondino

Hand 3 isn't as cut and dried. After he calls you on the turn I just don't think you have enough FE to put in another $60. You are repping genuine hands which make sense, but only 33/A3/AJ, and this guy clearly has something - almost certainly an overpair from his position/bet (QQ maybe?).

---

I'm with you here. The turn raise is not unreasonable against certain types of taggy regulars. But once he calls your stab on the flop - just give up, he's not going to fold the river.

Sometimes you just have to ask yourself why you stacked off with a pair of aces three kicker. Keep it simple.

The problem you have is bringing a knife to a gunfight. So you feel someone's range is degraded. That's no reason to play very marginal hands in bad spots against them. You basically need to figure out what it is to play against a wide range. This isn't it.

Playing against a wide range isn't a license to show down stupid hands. You can however take your good but not great hands further. Learn that and $$$.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

you suck because you dont have the discipline for poker it seems. its evident in these hands and in the way you conduct yourself.

---

bit harsh. he can improve his discipline.

i think gabe's jealous that someone else plays poker as crazy as gabe. lol.
these hands are so crazy. i don't think they have a place in low stakes NL HE. they fit right in at the HSNL forums.

IMO, i think every single one of these hands is played terribly. just play the cards at 50c/$1 and youll do a lot better IMO.

if you played $10/$20 limit, euphorism, then why is your br so small? why not play 200NL or 400NL?

fps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by biondino

Hand 2 makes my skin crawl. Not the flop, not really the turn, but the river call. It's like above, but the other way round - he can't believe he has much fold equity (unless you have a missed draw, in which case he doesn't need to bet nearly so much), yet he still sticks it in. He'd need both balls the size of watermelons and a loose grasp on betting odds to three-barrel-bluff here - and any genuine hand he does have beats yours. Your river call SCREAMS of tilt to me, because I recognise it all too well.

---

Eh, I'd taken several buyins off this guy because he would do this with any two cards. If I had posted some of the other hands that I played with this guy I think it would look bad, but not AS bad. But yes, I still cant do this with A3. AT+ I would be OK with I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

if u cant take a comment on a message board then how are you supposed to survive poker. he was asking for it when he started this.

---

Yup. Bring it. Sometimes you just gotta kick someone until they wake up. I can definitely take being called "undisciplined" , and its probably a fair critique of my NL game. Though maybe eh.. another word I cant think of right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by renton

4. Stop threebetting the flop with one pair hands. Stop going broke in limped pots with crappy hands.

---

I'm going to tattoo this on my arm.

Quote:

---

btw posting results sucks.

---

Well, I didnt.. but I guess I kinda did. Not really the point, though.

Quote:

---

Confidence is pretty much the most important thing to have at any given time. Telling yourself you suck and acting like you are helpless you've got no chance man. I wish I found this out a while ago because I used to have confidence problems, but as soon as I stopped being a little bitch about it my results improved ten-fold.

---

This will go on my other arm. Confidence has always been huge for me. When I wasnt feeling good about my LHE game I dropped down to micro stakes and beat up on fish for a bit just to prove to myself I didnt suck. Jeff and I called them "Confidence Runs". Playing shitty at 5/10 lately? Drop down to 1/2 and play 10k hands of every stake again. Worked pretty damned well, but 10k hands of LHE go much quicker than 10k hands of NL.

But yeah, I dont feel very confident at 100 because I havent had good results -- because I dont play very well -- so I dont have confidence. Hmm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pokerroomace

these hands are so crazy. i don't think they have a place in low stakes NL HE. they fit right in at the HSNL forums. IMO, i think every single one of these hands is played terribly.

---

I'm not sure our HSNL brothers appreciate my shit play being compared to their l33t play.

Quote:

---

if you played $10/$20 limit, euphorism, then why is your br so small? why not play 200NL or 400NL?

---

If I cant beat 100NL, I'm an uberfish at 200 and 400NL. My BR is small because I have shitty spending habits. I burned out on poker after grinding 1bb/100 for several hundred thousand hands. I went a few months where I didnt play much at all but I didnt decrease my spending habits. This ate the bankroll quickly. Then I switched to NL and learned I was a total fiiiiish.

Basically, I've started over from $100 and now am back at $2500 (3k yesterday... grumble...) but will probably be cashing out much of that soon because I need to pay summer tuition which my scholarship wont cover.

Which may be a blessing in disguise, forcing me down into lowstakes again.




Thanks for the posts everyone.

If I may make an observation or two:

As others said, you make plays better suited to higher limits. A little more ABC goes the long way at these limits. Not saying there's not room for creativity, because there is, but you have to watch it.

You take "limit" showdowns in NL games. Not a good combo. Stop overvaluing your hands, especially your one pair/top pair hands. See: your stackoff you posted not too long ago with 99.

Which leads to: Stop stacking off with marginal holdings!!!

Trying to run before I can walk might be a good part of it as well.

I think your main problem seems to be pot control. Whenever you get raised OOP you think the guy is bluff raising you or on some sort of draw, so you three-bet to "charge the draw", even though you have a mediocre hand yourself.

It would be a lot easier for you to use pot control if you stopped playing so many hands OOP, and played more in position.

Big pots for big hands! ... and none of these hands were big... so that's a problem!

Your clearly committed to the game and understand concepts u just have to stop spewing.
It's not like people never go through what you're going through. I felt like I was a very solid 100nl reg, except i spewed like mad, causing me to break even over about 100k hands, but some people aren't that lucky. Here's some tips to cut down on spewing until you really understand the spots.
1. Don't bluff in a threebet pot (even good players rarely ever do this)
2. Don't "set up bluffs" (you probably know what im talking about)
3. Don't push every draw
4. Don't assume, when you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME. i.e. don't assume your opponent thinks or just cuz he has these stats he'll bluff.
5. TPTK can be layed down, and it happens a good amount
6. Remember that there are 100nl regs who are complete nits that run 4ptBB/100, they never bluff, and are probably 16/12.

I'm not a huge fan of most of these hands. Euph, you play a lot of these hands against these so called "moroniacs" but how often are they showing down shit and losing stacks. A lot of these guys that play this aggro will only continue the flop, after that they are done without a good read or a good hand. Your not playing against their ranges for showdown with these hands, your looking to take the pot off them on the flop or turn. When 3 betting OOP with suited trash, are you really looking to build a huge pot and showdown MP?? Your over playing the morons, in position these hands would look much better, stop thinking pot odds and start thinking about implied odds from a NL standpoint, those three bets are going to force you into push/fold with some unpredictable players while your holding mediocre cards.

Start looking for better spots and weaker players, find the spots that they will give you money, not spots where your trying to take it from someone who won't let go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

you suck because you dont have the discipline for poker it seems. its evident in these hands and in the way you conduct yourself.

---

why does everyone always rag on Euph? I mean, yes you get your point across well but it seems like people say shit on here they would never say in person to anyone, ever.
I mean it can feel horrible to be a losing money and fucking sucking and know it. Give him a break to do some venting, as far as I know Euph has had tons of highs and lows with NL, it's been a big struggle. Just a thought.

---

If you take out the words "you suck" from gabes post it sounds completely fine. And the reason those words are even in there are because of the subject of this post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

As others said, you make plays better suited to higher limits. A little more ABC goes the long way at these limits. Not saying there's not room for creativity, because there is, but you have to watch it.
!

---

I think a couple of these plays are poor plays at any stakes. Calling raises out of position with K7s and stacking off with A3 on an A77 board are not good plays at any limit. I actually see where euph was coming from on the A3 hand against this maniac but I'd still fold the flop because I think hands like A9 are a big part of his range here. If you had AQ I'd have zero problem with how you played the hand.

Hand 4 is really ugly, Hand 6 is perfectly fine IMO.

Quote:

---

Confidence is pretty much the most important thing to have at any given time. Telling yourself you suck and acting like you are helpless you've got no chance man. I wish I found this out a while ago because I used to have confidence problems, but as soon as I stopped being a little bitch about it my results improved ten-fold.

---

This will go on my other arm. [/quote]

I would recommend shortening this to "Little Bitch" on the tatt.

That goes on my Pee-Pee.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Hand 4 is really ugly, Hand 6 is perfectly fine IMO.

---

I don't like going allin on this flop with TPWK. (unless its against a maniac loose player). The only pros of playing so aggro are that hands like AK and KQ might fold. But then again they might not. You're nearly always behind when villain calls in hand 6.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Ok I dont really hate this last one so much. SB had been farking with me the entire night. He just turned up with a K this time.

******* Hand 5 ********

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $86.45
CO: $116.52
Hero: $98
SB: $251.3
SB: $140.05
BB: $220.65

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 7 :club: 8 :heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $8, BB folds, Hero raises to $36, SB calls.

Flop: 8 :diamond: K :club: K :heart: ($73, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero is all-in $62, SB calls.

Turn: 4 :spade: ($197, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $197)


River: A :heart: ($197, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $197)


Results:
Final pot: $197

---

Are you kidding? Thats disgusting. You seem to keep finding players who are willing to raise and reraise and get allin with trash, and then to counter it you decide to get it in with even worse.



equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.051% 42.69% 02.36% 895522755 49450649.00 { 8h7s }
Hand 1: 54.949% 52.59% 02.36% 1103148347 49450649.00 { random }

When you come up against LAGtards you make money with value hands not by making them build a pot with trash and then fold when they realise theyre behind. Start isolating these players and building pots with AJ, KT type hands more often, and less often with literally below average hands like 78o and 64s. These guys are here to gamboool. Get in there with a range thats above theirs.

I dont really think you understand the motives behind raising in a NL game. Against loose players you are trying to build a pot for them to stack off when you both hit top pair.

I think a couple of weeks of ABC 19 hand poker would do you good.

please don't equate or associate abc poker with 19 hand poker

raising T9s in good position when folded to is a perfectly abc play

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

2. Don't "set up bluffs" (you probably know what im talking about)
6. Remember that there are 100nl regs who are complete nits that run 4ptBB/100, they never bluff, and are probably 16/12.

---

QFT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renton

please don't equate or associate abc poker with 19 hand poker

raising T9s in good position when folded to is a perfectly abc play

---

Yes but that wasnt what I was saying at all. Raising 9Ts in good position when folded to is fairly standard TAG but it isnt going to help you break a spewtard habbit. I think euph could do with a week or 2 of just playing his cards and not bluffing/blindstealing or the rest of it.

edit: I know alot of you guys look down on 19 hand poker and I dont think anyone sane would regard it as some sort of high stakes end game, but it really does give you a solid foundation to get some confidence and some money and start to understand the fundamentals. Once youve moved past that you cant start adding hands and moves as you go along.