against the maniacs

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05-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Kagey

against the maniacs

Villain is 77/45/4 aggression on turn 7, river 8. He's raising 6xBB and has been running all over the table. The two blinds seem pretty tight. I haven't had a hand yet. Nobody has re-raised him yet. I'm curious about how he's going to react to a re-raise. I really have no reads as to the standard of his play post flop since he has bid everyone out of the hands he's played. Although his stats seem to suggest he's pouncing on weakness.
I have really played ahand yet.

GAME #557732502: Texas Hold'em NL $0.25/$0.50 2007-05-23 09:40:49
Table Masaya
Seat 1: BB ($52.20 in chips)
Seat 3: Villain ($67.54 in chips)
Seat 6: Hero ($49.75 in chips) DEALER
Seat 10: SB ($160.35 in chips)
SB: Post SB $0.25
BB: Post BB $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qs 9d]

Villain: Raise $3.00
Hero: Raise $11.00
SB: Fold
BB: Fold
Villain: Call $8.00
*** FLOP *** [7s Qc 7c]
Villain: Bet $5.00
Hero: Raise $15.00
Villain: Call $10.00
*** TURN *** [5s]
Villain: Bet $13.00
Hero: Allin $23.75
Villain: Call $10.75
*** RIVER *** [7h]
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $98.25 Rake $2.00
kagey: wins $98.25

So I won the hand and was feeling pleased with myself until I rechecked the hand. Isn't this just spew? esp. the turn reraise.

Comments please.
05-23-2007, 04:18 PM
zenbitz

turn raise is ok because of 2 flush draws. You're not going to fold, and you will be a/i on river anyway.

It's the PF 3-bet that's spewy.
05-23-2007, 04:27 PM
litetruck

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

turn raise is ok because of 2 flush draws. You're not going to fold, and you will be a/i on river anyway.

It's the PF 3-bet that's spewy.

Is that b/c villain isn't folding to our 3bet?
05-23-2007, 04:30 PM
Chopper

agreed. taking Q9o into a lag is begging to get stacked by him. lucky for you, you flopped a nice one.

however, i think well played after that.

usually, into LAGs, i will check-call them to the river and raise them there with my bigger hands. but i will 3bet pf with a lot of stuff to see where they are. they dont usually like to call into aggression when they've been pushing around the whole table. they are just waiting for someone to come out of submission and RR them.
05-23-2007, 04:31 PM
Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by litetruck

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

turn raise is ok because of 2 flush draws. You're not going to fold, and you will be a/i on river anyway.

It's the PF 3-bet that's spewy.

Is that b/c villain isn't folding to our 3bet?

no. its because Q9 is a crappy hand...period.
05-23-2007, 04:56 PM
zenbitz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by litetruck

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

turn raise is ok because of 2 flush draws. You're not going to fold, and you will be a/i on river anyway.

It's the PF 3-bet that's spewy.

Is that b/c villain isn't folding to our 3bet?

no. its because Q9 is a crappy hand...period.

A simplistic way to think about it:
lag is raising 45% of his hands. So, we should be 3-betting <45% of our hands. Q9o is not (well maybe barely) in the top 45% of hands AND it doesn't play well against the top end (since it's ragged and likely to be dominated).

Note that if he was the kind of maniac that PFR'd 45% of his hand but folded the bottom 2/3rds of these to 3-bets, (i.e, worse than 22+/AJ+) then you should always 3-bet him. He would probably adjust quickly though.
05-23-2007, 05:36 PM
Kagey

The Q9 wasn't so important but I wanted to find out as you mentioned whether he was the type of Lag that was folding to 3-bets. Although I still think I should have pushed the turn since I'm effectively committed after the re-raise, and with the flush draw out there.....
05-24-2007, 10:41 PM
Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by litetruck

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

turn raise is ok because of 2 flush draws. You're not going to fold, and you will be a/i on river anyway.

It's the PF 3-bet that's spewy.

Is that b/c villain isn't folding to our 3bet?

no. its because Q9 is a crappy hand...period.

A simplistic way to think about it:
lag is raising 45% of his hands. So, we should be 3-betting <45% of our hands. Q9o is not (well maybe barely) in the top 45% of hands AND it doesn't play well against the top end (since it's ragged and likely to be dominated).

Note that if he was the kind of maniac that PFR'd 45% of his hand but folded the bottom 2/3rds of these to 3-bets, (i.e, worse than 22+/AJ+) then you should always 3-bet him. He would probably adjust quickly though.

i'd prefer to wait for a better hand, myself. not necessarily AA, but something in a range worthy of a 3bet. poker can be simple. it doesnt have to spin your head in circles wondering, "if i do this, it says this, but he'll think i have this, so i should do this. wait, maybe i'll do this instead, because it means this, and he will think this. ok, i'll do...that. oops, what does that mean?"

i, personally, would rather take something into a LAG that has both potential to hit a big DOMINATING hand, or at least something that's not so marginal if the Q falls. LAGs tend to hit real hands against you when you try to "play back at them." thats where they make their money...by someone playing outside their comfort zone, and trying to "stack this guy."

yes, you should 3bet what you want to play with, but you still need to show some patience about WHAT you 3bet.

just my .02