The light bulb goes on.

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06-24-2007, 08:45 AM
overflow

The light bulb goes on.

I think I'm making some progress with my approach to the game, position, post-flop hand strength, and the worst line in history by villian. Before anyone jumps on my case, this isn't a "brag" post, but more of an illustrative "why you shouldn't play AA like a donkey on a bad board". I think he put me on a flush draw. Oops.
I guess this is where the majority of your money in cash games comes from, foes overvaluing pocket pairs and sets to your straights and flushes. The hysterical annecdote about this hand, was that villian (after overshoving 147BB into a 30BB pot with just an overpair, on this board no less) called me a complete donkey for calling his raise in position with 8c9c. Then calling him on the flop with middle pair and a gutshot. It was nice making the right plays and stacking a guy who had the aces, instead of being the fish getting stacked by overplaying them myself.

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $9.45
UTG+1: $11.25
CO: $3.80
Hero: $32.35
SB: $16.05
BB: $24.60

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 8 :club: 9 :club:
3 folds, Hero calls, SB raises to $0.4, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: 6 :spade: T :club: 8 :spade: ($1.2, 3 players)
SB bets $0.9, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 7 :heart: ($3, 2 players)
SB is all-in $14.75, Hero calls.

River: 4 :heart: ($32.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $32.5)
Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $32.5
Hero Shows 8c 9c
SB Shows As Ah
06-24-2007, 09:25 AM
overflow

Side Note: I probably would've blown up if villian spiked a 3-out 9 on the river. Heh. Something similar to that happened yesterday. I'm in the BB with A4s flop is A47, I lead guy in late position raises, I overshove for 60BB+, he insta-calls with A9o, turn J, river 7, split pot. I'm just glad the turn wasn't a 2.
06-24-2007, 10:14 AM
minSim

Who else raises flop?
06-24-2007, 10:32 AM
Kagey

Me. Raising pre-flop will make it easier to get more money in the pot, and you won't have to rely on people shoving all there money in for no apparent reason. Unfortunately not everyone takes this line with AA.
06-24-2007, 10:42 AM
dsmrolla06

I cant say im a huge fan of limping the button when noones limped in front of you. Im raising this pf every time.
06-24-2007, 10:54 AM
|~|ypermegachi

hero never ever open limps.
06-24-2007, 11:07 AM
overflow

You guys are raising middle pair with a gutshot here? I realize I have the likely equivalent of a flush draw, but my hand is vulnerable as hell. I'm behind to 99+ AT,KT,JT, and flipping if he has two overs and a flush draw.

I like open limping from the button with SCs, if the small blind completes, and I hit a monster I have twice the chances of getting action. Especially at microstakes when people are calling 70-80BB+ with TPGK.

I thought not overextending with speculative hands was the whole idea? Or does this come down to building a pot even if you know you're sacrificing the raise you made if you have to fold to a bet on the turn.

Especially when there are like 25 or 30 cards that could hit on the turn that will cause me to fold to a lead bet. Or the fact that I can't call a 3bet with this hand on this flop because too many of my outs could be dead.
06-24-2007, 11:35 AM
dsmrolla06

You raise preflop because it gives you more ways to win the pot than just by hitting your hand. You win by stealing the blinds, and when you do get called you win alot of pots by firing out a cbet on good textured flops. Limping does neither of these.
06-24-2007, 11:47 AM
jyms

Limping from the button and having SB complete and BB check can end up costing you a lot of money. I raise this everytime. I still think your being results oriented. You keep thinking your losing hands are beat and your winning hands are played well. Start posting hands with reads on the villain or at least stats, and stop putting in the results if you want opinions on the play. I don't think this was an aha moment for you yet, but you will get there.
06-24-2007, 12:02 PM
Pelion

Id usually raise preflop with position and a good hand. If they call off a stack in a limped pot with TPGK then limping preflop is clearly the better play but even really terrible calling stations wont usually go that far unless its built a bit preflop.
06-24-2007, 01:18 PM
swiggidy

Fold flop
06-24-2007, 01:38 PM
bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Fold flop

never, we have gross implied odds against a SB opener at 10NL(see the turn action?) with 9 outs

As played I raise PF, maybe call a 3bet. From there I call the flop and definitely stack the overpair who will never fold on the turn.
06-24-2007, 01:54 PM
overflow

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Fold flop

never, we have gross implied odds against a SB opener at 10NL(see the turn action?) with 9 outs

As played I raise PF, maybe call a 3bet. From there I call the flop and definitely stack the overpair who will never fold on the turn.

Spenda, I think this means we're either both idiots, or I'm starting to think like a poker player. You read my mind on the flop, that was the exact thought that crossed my head "In all liklihood I have 9 winning outs, and villian is 150BB deep.".

In the future I'll start open raising my SCs from the button all the time. This isn't really my standard line here either, I raise in this spot [with SCs 67+] 85-90% of the time. After the $80 swing I took yesterday morning I was trying to save bets with marginal hands. I made the mistake of thinking that raising here preflop was leaky.
06-24-2007, 01:59 PM
jyms

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Fold flop

never, we have gross implied odds against a SB opener at 10NL(see the turn action?) with 9 outs

As played I raise PF, maybe call a 3bet. From there I call the flop and definitely stack the overpair who will never fold on the turn.

I get where you are going, but one thing about NL and counting outs, your stack is on the line, and he has outs too. If the board pairs on the river, drawing to second pair outs could be a problem. The good thing is if you put him on the overpair you know where to go with the hand, as played, most of the postflop was fine.
06-24-2007, 02:15 PM
swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Fold flop

never, we have gross implied odds against a SB opener at 10NL(see the turn action?) with 9 outs

As played I raise PF, maybe call a 3bet. From there I call the flop and definitely stack the overpair who will never fold on the turn.

Obv from the action this is correct, but where this read wasn't provided? If villain ever has a flush draw + overs (i.e. doesn't completely suck) we're not getting implied odds.
06-24-2007, 02:22 PM
bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Fold flop

never, we have gross implied odds against a SB opener at 10NL(see the turn action?) with 9 outs

As played I raise PF, maybe call a 3bet. From there I call the flop and definitely stack the overpair who will never fold on the turn.

Obv from the action this is correct, but where this read wasn't provided? If villain ever has a flush draw + overs (i.e. doesn't completely suck) we're not getting implied odds.

The read is someone in the blinds opened against a limper at 10nl. This is always a strong hand at this level assuming villain is not mentally challenged.
06-25-2007, 03:05 AM
minSim

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

Who else raises flop?
06-25-2007, 03:11 AM
swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

Who else raises flop?

no-one
06-25-2007, 06:38 AM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

Quote:

Originally Posted by minSim

Who else raises flop?

no-one
06-25-2007, 06:47 AM
minSim

I wouldn't either lol...after 2nd thinking