20k Hand PT Checkup (100nl)

Well, ive never done one of these before so i figured i probably should to find some leaks in my game.

Anyway, please tell me if theres anything that stands out in all these stats, any tips, leaks, questions, anything unusual etc etc.

Anyway, here are all graphs. Thx for the help! If u need any other stats or have any questions just ask. My basic stats are i run at 24/12/2.3 over 20k hands of 100nl 6 max.

Notes:

-My pf raise % might be a little low but i think thats mostly because of the large amount of passive players i play with... often im at a table that runs like 50/8 and it makes no sense raising marginal hands... although i do raise all pps etc

-Does my position play seem weird to anybody? Am i overplaying the button?

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3...kup1wd4.th.png

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6...kup2qy1.th.png

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7...kup3am9.th.png

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/8...kup4ds3.th.png

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7...kup5or1.th.png

your bb/100 is ideal.

heh, thanks :D It would be even better if i didnt hit that little rut. I had a bb/100 at over 10 for my first 9k hands. Wish i could have maintained that bb/100 :P

either you are running really good, or you have really good table selection.

about the only constructive thing i could say is you have room to raise more preflop and more blind stealing. but other than that, it looks pretty solid. you've mentioned already why it's low, so it's not a big deal.

Your PFR should be increasing in later position alongside your VPIP. Right now your VPIP increases, but your PFR actually decreases.

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Originally Posted by Harry

Your PFR should be increasing in later position alongside your VPIP. Right now your VPIP increases, but your PFR actually decreases.

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hmmm, interesting, didn't notice that cuz i couldn't find the position stats.

snowbird, how often do you 3bet?

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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harry

Your PFR should be increasing in later position alongside your VPIP. Right now your VPIP increases, but your PFR actually decreases.

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hmmm, interesting, didn't notice that cuz i couldn't find the position stats.

snowbird, how often do you 3bet?

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I noticed the position thing as well, my thoughts were i was calling others raises from previous streets in later posiitions and that i was rarely limping from EP, so i almost always raised, whereas in later position with marginal hands instead of raising, i would just call. An example would be like QJs, say i open for a raise in MP, normal right, but when you have this hand on the button, and it has already been raised, you just call right?. Anyway thats why i figured the position stats are how they are, i wonder if this is the same for others? or is my thinking flawed?

As for 3 bets, i think i 3 bet a good amount, far more than other players at my tables, usually 1010+ aq+, sometimes even less to mix it up or if i know my opponent's tendencies well.

Do you limp behind other limpers OTB often?

Yes.

Maybe my thinking in this is flawed. I think i always think theres no reason to raise with a marginal hand otb into passive players when its limped to me.

Should i be raising more marginal hands otb into 2+ players with vpips over 40? Just an example i thought of now as im playing with a table with some donks running 45/32, 60/15 and 45/15, 1 nit, and 1 normal tag.

In general should i be raising more into limpers otb? What about an example like i just mentioned?

BB/100 is sustainable at 7 -- I'm at 5.5 right now. I'm surprised with such a high winrate that one pair is a losing hand for you.

Overall, I wouldn't change "A winning team" much. 7bb is fantastic and you should be proud. I don't think you will be able to up this much more though, build a roll and move up.

- It's possible to make One Pair a winner, just play it more conservatively. Often TPGK may not even be good if you are in lots of multi-way pots. You are also not raising to isolate enough to make one pair a winner.

- Two pair should absolutely be a winner. It sounds like you are overplaying the value of 2p -- it only beats one pair ;) You're probably also getting bitten by straights, especially broadway area straights when you have 2p.

Where do you play with opponents with such bizarre stats? Surely not stars...

- J10s is my best drawing hand, and is one of my best hands overall. You need to make a lot more from it, breaking even over 20K seems like you are misplaying it. I see you're raising 98s/109s more and 78s/56s almost as much. IMO you should be raising J10s more than both. Its a fantastic deceptive hand as it completes Broadway but is also often the nut straight and highly deceptive on Q 98 boards. vs. AQ or a set.

- I think you can increase your AKs winrate, 1.16 is kinda low. I'm not sure what you are doing wrong, post some hands.

Folding 60% of river bets is kinda high. It sounds like you are calling too many turn bes and probably not calling enough on the river with the goods.

In general it seems like you should play maybe 1% fewer hands and raise 1% more instead of limping. 23/13 is more balanced than 24/12. Pick a few losers and dump them out of your range and start raising J10s :)

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Originally Posted by mixchange

BB/100 is sustainable at 7 -- I'm at 5.5 right now. I'm surprised with such a high winrate that one pair is a losing hand for you.

Overall, I wouldn't change "A winning team" much. 7bb is fantastic and you should be proud. I don't think you will be able to up this much more though, build a roll and move up.

- It's possible to make One Pair a winner, just play it more conservatively. Often TPGK may not even be good if you are in lots of multi-way pots. You are also not raising to isolate enough to make one pair a winner.

- J10s is my best drawing hand, and is one of my best hands overall. You need to make a lot more from it, breaking even over 20K seems like you are misplaying it. I see you're raising 98s/109s more and 78s/56s almost as much. IMO you should be raising J10s more than both. Its a fantastic deceptive hand as it completes Broadway but is also often the nut straight and highly deceptive on Q 98 boards. vs. AQ or a set.

- I think you can increase your AKs winrate, 1.16 is kinda low. I'm not sure what you are doing wrong, post some hands.

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You cant tell shit by looking at winrates of individual hands after only 21k hands, this takes hundreds of thousands of hands to converge.
Looking at pokertracker I am down $155k with one pair in 278k hands, there is absolutely no way you can make ANY random pair a winning hand in no limit texas holdem.

Besides that, yes 7ptbb/100 is sustainable at 100nl however 21k hands is not enough to give an accurate figure, it does however tell me that you are very likely a winning player, congrats and look to move up when you feel comfortable.

ok, maybe I just hit a good run, over my last 20K I finally made one pair a winning hand, I was proud of that. But I guess that was just a fluke? Is that impossible statistically to sustain over time Bill?

Yes, 7ptbb/100 is sustainable, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I meant its harder to go a lot higher, like to keep up 9ptbb/100. All I meant was if over time if his winrate sustains which is likely, he can move up and probably make more than trying to extract another 1-2ptbb/100

Also, he posted his hands so I tried to make some comments, I think some of them were valid. Of course the size was small, but I still stand by j10 being a good drawing hand he should play more.

I definitely defer to you though, Bill.

if you can sustain 7ptbb/100 at any level, you're playing too low.

mixchange, have you by any chance marked the box 'show only hands that were not folded' ? If so one pair hands will show a profit otherwise you are running amazing.

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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

mixchange, have you by any chance marked the box 'show only hands that were not folded' ? If so one pair hands will show a profit otherwise you are running amazing.

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mixchange.. I think youre playing well for sure,but I also think you might be running somewhat hot.

I think your AA is holding up very well so far, by looking at your win%/W$WSF numbers. Either that, or my AA just aren't running that great.

Also, the fact that you're making money out of the SB could mean that you're running hot ... either that or playing amazingly out of the blinds :)

Warning long ass post:

Thanks for the comments so far. Give me a little bit to read through all of them and respond to everything because I will.

To answer some questions, thanks for the comments about my winrate... hopefully it is sustainable, I’ve played like a little over 22k and it’s still about the same... but I know this sample is still very small. I wish I had a bigger database, but I actually just moved up from 25nl 6 max, straight to 100nl 6 max slightly underolled June 1st and that’s when this database started. I can't wait to move up, but my roll is still pretty small... only like 3k. I’m hopeing to move up to 4k or so before switching over to 1/2. I have taken a shot or two but my roll really couldn’t handle it at the time, but I did end up a little before I stopped and the game doesn't seem that tough, at all but I just don’t have the roll to go for it yet. I also have to do some other stuff so I can get some rakeback and some other random junk before i move up.

I’m surprised that one pair is a winning hand for your mixchange, while that’s great, I just wonder what you are losing on? It seems to me it would be standard to lose on high card/one pair, and win on others. Maybe I’m wrong. Surely your winning on everything upwards of two pair, so what do you lose on if you win with one pair? Highcard? Do most people have one pair as a losing hand like me and coco bill? Just curious. Also, I think your right about not isolating mixchange as I am often in a multiway passive flop, maybe I will try to integrate this more often into my game. Although post flop i think i isolate fairly well, ill look into it and try and put it into my game more.

Another question, about my pfr raise slightly decreasing as my VPIP increases in better position. Is this ok? I think this has a lot to do with Harry’s question “Do you limp behind other limpers OTB often?” Yes, I do, but I think this is mostly because of their passivity. Is this fine playing with lots of passives? Should I really try to change that a lot or just slightly tweak like the recommendations you guys have given?

Thanks for the "winning team" comment, as I am doing pretty well so far. I do think your comment about table selection is totally true though, I really think that is like the 6th man in poker. I always try to sit with known donkeys or unknowns who are just giving this a shot or playing for fun instead of sitting at a table full of regs which I pretty much refuse to do. Although regs for me are usually easier to exploit, they’re usually not the most profitable. Ideally I would like to move up, but hopefully I will work the roll up to 4k and see if I am still maintaining the 7 bb/100 by then with a larger db heh hopefully, and then hopefully move up to 1/2 and succeed there :)

As for blind play, periodically I think both have been down at a time, but for a good while they were both positive if I recall, I’m probably just running hot though since in the SB i am positive and my BB is negative and my sample size is still small, I don’t know maybe I will check it out and post back. Does anyone win in the blinds? It’s usually standard to lose a lot in both blinds right?

As for my AA/KK I have been running pretty well with those hands for the most part, I don’t know if it is how I play it, or just running well, but I have lost very rarely with those two. But it seems like some other pairs like QQ and JJ are running worse than normal... ill have to check though.

Ill check with you on my two pair and post some hands... ill also try and find some multi way pots in position vs. passives and see what u guys think of my play. Ill also look into my AK hands and post some in a few. Ill look into the folding 60 percent of river bets and post some comments/hands.

Thanks to all for the comments and questions so far, I really appreciate it! Keep it up:)

If other players are playing passive, take advantage of them by raising and making their limps into pot donations. Do this with your good hands and limp a bit less. I think you'll find you aren't making a lot on multiway limped pots anyway.

Everyone loses in the blinds. The important stat is difference in those positions w/o the blinds factored in.

Coco: No I did not check that box, but I am a Poker Tracker newbie so it's highly possible I simply am misinterpreting my stats. It does say "Known Final Hand Summary". You can see my last stat post (I'd be very interested to hear your input in that thread if you have a moment):
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...467&highlight=

Pic 2 you can see the one pair winning. This is only 9K hands but I have managed to maintain it (barely) to 20K (not posted).

I've never done it at 25 or 50NL, so it's probably just variance or misreading my stats. I've seen your incredible stats Bill and your ptbb/100 is better even at your stakes so it's probably one of the two...but snow losing that much on one pair (2.5K) means he could probably improve a lot, I bet its those multiways he is calling down, or calling turn bets with it and then folding river (kind of a high river fold imo). You can save a lot by folding the turn when behind, especially in these medium/small pots it often doesn't seem like much but it can make a big difference over the course of a lot of hands.

I think your AA is about normal, KK maybe running a lil hot.

Hi There,

Great winrate, keep it up.

IMO I think what is very noticable is that almost all good players win their most money on the button - having position is a HUGE advantage.
If you think it is working - limping along with say QJs otb you just have to look at your own stats to see the results.
On the button where you play a 30/13 (weak, passive) game you are only winning .05 per hand
But in Pos 2 where you play a 23/18 game (pretty ideal) you are winning
.30 per hand (6x more + sometimes without pos.)

So although this a small sample size it should illustrate that if you played a similar 23/18 game in pos 1 & otb your results could be amazing.
I think you have a great post flop game and great table selection - what site do you play on?

You're running good, probably double your real win-rate or something like that. AA/KK are getting paid off like slot machines. Your SB is showing a profit (a sure sign of being on fire.)

My biggest concern here is your button and cut-off profit. Are you playing enough hands in those positions? (Re-)raising enough?

Fnord- No, because of the passive players i play with, i rarely reraise on the button. Should i be reraising more? Sure if it is folded to me, i will raise almost any marginal hand otb, but im normally limping with 2 or more limpers ahead of me without a quality hand. Do you think this is a problem? This is where i need advice, because it seems like this is where my button/position problems are coming in.

An example like i used above would be.

Should i be raising more marginal hands otb into 2+ players with vpips over 40? Just an example i thought of now as im playing with a table with some donks running 45/32, 60/15 and 45/15, 1 nit, and 1 normal tag.

Say i get QJs OTB, say i open for a raise in MP, normal right? But when you have this hand on the button, and it has already been raised, you just call right? Anyway thats why i figured the position stats are how they
are, i wonder if this is the same for others? Is my thinking flawed here? What do you do if 2 people limp and its on you in the button with QJs? So the action goes limp limp fold, then its on me OTB with QJs, would you raise? Normally yes? But what about raising two limpers who are running 45/32 and 60/15? just call? What do you do if one of them calls your raise, and you whiff on the flop? Cbet?and when they call your cbet.. hero does what? I think another example would be the first hand in IowaSkinsFans's Today's big winners and losers thread pt 2 posted today. If you look there, how utg plays is pretty similar to the opponents i have trouble with except im not always nailing flushes lol.

I think at the beginning of the month my pfr raising from the button was more. And actually i remember my stats being overall a point or two higher in pfr. But it lowered since then. I think i just found it ineffective to reraise, or even raise into multiple limpers who are really passive with marginal hands, even with the button.

I don't want to sound all defensive here like im defending myself, because im not. I just want to know what you guys do in these situations and if i should be changing my approach to get more out of position.

As you noted Noble, maybe i will try opening my button game up more from a 30/13 to something like a 28/20 or something i think i just have trouble with the above type of scenarios. I'll let you know how it goes.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y24...sitionG00t.png

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Originally Posted by mixchange

If other players are playing passive, take advantage of them by raising and making their limps into pot donations. Do this with your good hands and limp a bit less. I think you'll find you aren't making a lot on multiway limped pots anyway.

Everyone loses in the blinds. The important stat is difference in those positions w/o the blinds factored in.

Coco: No I did not check that box, but I am a Poker Tracker newbie so it's highly possible I simply am misinterpreting my stats. It does say "Known Final Hand Summary". You can see my last stat post (I'd be very interested to hear your input in that thread if you have a moment):
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...467&highlight=

Pic 2 you can see the one pair winning. This is only 9K hands but I have managed to maintain it (barely) to 20K (not posted).

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mixchange, I can be quite blunt at times, no disrespect intended. I looked at your 'final hand summary' and noticed that its only 483 hands total, do you know why this number is so much lower than the total number of played hands?

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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

Besides that, yes 7ptbb/100 is sustainable at 100nl

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For you its sustainble if u played 100nl, not anyone at that level.