A/K facing re-raise from Blinds (preflop)

How do you play this - absolutely no reads..

etting Hand History Information...
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Hand #44556734-711 at Ahungalla (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 19/Jul/07 01:57:00

jb326 is at seat 0 with $87.60.
Longshot18 is at seat 1 with $43.35.
ROUNDERS247 is at seat 2 with $21.95.
scyllacybe is at seat 3 with $11.65.
Bo_Duke is at seat 4 with $49.
619rounder is at seat 5 with $51.05.
jak3 is at seat 6 with $18.40.
Aixisit is at seat 7 with $23.75.
HERO is at seat 8 with $72.05.
Ellis_Island is at seat 9 with $54.10.
The button is at seat 9.

jb326 posts the small blind of $.25.
Longshot18 posts the big blind of $.50.

jb326: -- --
Longshot18: -- --
ROUNDERS247: -- --
scyllacybe: -- --
Bo_Duke: -- --
619rounder: -- --
jak3: -- --
Aixisit: -- --
HERO: Kh Ad
Ellis_Island: -- --

Pre-flop:

ROUNDERS247 folds. scyllacybe folds. Bo_Duke folds.
619rounder folds. jak3 folds. Aixisit calls.
HERO raises to $2.25. Ellis_Island folds. jb326
re-raises to $7.75. Longshot18 folds. Aixisit
folds. HERO calls.

Flop (board: 8d 3c Kd):

jb326 bets $16.50. HERO calls.

Turn (board: 8d 3c Kd Jc):

jb326 checks. HERO checks.

River (board: 8d 3c Kd Jc 3s):

jb326 goes all-in for $63.35.

no offense, but i hate the way you played this so passively.

Preflop is fine.

Why not raise the flop? and i think your biggest mistake was why did you check behind on the turn? Pot control? were you fearing aa or something? Trying to get value from a lower pp bluff?

If it was me i would raise the flop to ~40 or so.

If you call the flop, i don't see why you check behind on the turn. If you call the flop, imo you should be betting the turn for like ~40 or so. I guess your giving him a chance to bluff with his underpair or something, but then you surely have to call his river shove?

I think the biggest part in this hand is, because you never raised, its tough to know where you are at in the hand. Also, i don't really see how you are giving him lots of credit/scared of his hand on the flop and turn, especially with no reads/hud. I guess it would be one thing if he ran like 9/3 or something, but you don't have any reads.

Jacks got there?

The money is deep enough here to re-think your pre-flop line.

raising to 40 on the flop commits you to the pot and as fnord says you are pretty deep here, therefore I don't like it.

Preflop is tricky. So you have no reads on villain but how do you figure you stand up against the typical 3bet range of a 50NL player? Im not sure I like the call but not sure I wouldn't make it either.

Flop is fine. You don't want to commit yourself just yet.
His check on the turn is an interesting one. I think it narrows his range considerably. AA, KK, AK seem unlikely now. QQ is my guess and if fnord is right (JJ) then it's quite an interesting line.

i dump this preflop considering we're likely behind and even if we hit a K we may still be behind. a lot of this is because of likely range at 50NL.

Like said here - i may dump this preflop Out of Position- especially since this looks like an isolation play to get me heads up. However, I decide to call - and try to play it pretty passively post-flop.

However, when he made his flop bet (seemed a little large), I thought he may be making a cont bet with K/K , Q/Q etc - and trying to chase me out. The turn check almost "confirmed" that he wasn't as strong as he portrayed - as it didn't make sense to me to give a free card on a board like this.

Finally, his overbet on the river screemed "i'm weak" to me (that or he his J/J for his 2 outer).

I didn't re-raise the flop - b/c any re-raise has be committed to the hand - and i tried to just check it down. And, i generally don't like to 3 -bet out of position with A/K, while i might do it in position given reads.

PF is really tricky against an unknown. If he's the sort to re-raise a late postion raiser with a medium pair+ then I'd raise. If he only re-raises JJ+ AK then it's an obvious fold. If he mixes in more unpaired hands AJ+ then probably call. But we don't know. You could repop him to $20 and fold to a shove? You have position after all.

Having called you must believe your A or K can win for you? I assume you are not just trying to hit an A? After his flop bet the pot is 66 big blinds and you have top pair top kicker. I think you should try and take it down there and push over his bet.

but then I may be very wrong

call pf, unless you want to KNOW its AA/KK.

if you call pf, you MUST raise the flop. you need to know where you stand, imo.

if you only call pf, you may find AA. KK, imo, at 50, would check the flop.

you are looking, imo, at QQ/JJ...maybe another AK afraid of KJ.

either way, because of your passivity earlier, you invited a "scared" push, and cant call it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

call pf, unless you want to KNOW its AA/KK.

if you call pf, you MUST raise the flop. you need to know where you stand, imo.

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This is pefect. Information is key, so find out asap where you stand.

I hate calling preflop oop against re-raise with ace high. even if you hit 1/3 of the time, weaker hands won't pay you off well enough to make the preflop call justifiable.

general train of thought...

when in what looks to be a "marginal/2nd best/dominated" situation...find out where you stand...AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE W/ AGGRESSION.

meaning, raise somewhere....and the earlier, the less expensive. if you raise, he knows you are going to play aggressively. therefore, he will try to "end it" quickly, too. or call down with his monster.

the tough part is knowing whether to keep betting, or start check/calling down.