Perceived Range vs. Actual Range

Fnord brought up a great topic in sauce's other thread about your perceived range vs. actual range. I think we assume e a "3 bet range" for any unknown we and then we modify that range based on what is shown down + frequency.

What if instead of 3betting with the perceived range, we sit down as an unknown and 3bet with a stealth range? Then we can shift when we feel opponents are catching on. What I hate is its obvious when AK hits and its a quick and easy read/fold for opponent. What this really boils down to, is how much is it worth for villain to be very confused about our range? I would think this is the most profitable possible thing, part of making adjustments to fool opponents.

I don't like 3 betting AKo much because (now a lot of this is because of my personal lack of skill with AK in 3 bet pots) it mostly turns into a short list of standard, boring, obvious scenarios like:

1) I win a small/medium pot on the flop or turn with cbets.
2) I win medium pot vs. marginal holdings, or someone calling down a pp.
3) I lose a large pot because of bluffs, getting called down or R/R, or losing to a set with 2p or tptk
4) rarely, I win a large pot with a straight or vs. AQ.

I'm not gaining a lot from the 3bet AK pots, and I feel like its bad for metagame when I get caught bluffing my 3bet pots with it.

Now, when I've just been calling with AK --
I've had people stack assuming I can't have AK for the straight, or top 2 with AK out there. I've gotten good value from Ax. Deception of our range seems like a strong weapon. Wherareas when I 3bet, half the time people think "AQ or AK" and think I'm bluffing (especially when I am unknown). There's a lot more hands that we call with than we 3bet with, and it's harder to put us on a hand when we don't 3bet a "3bet hand".

Now with a stealth 3bet range hand like J10s I feel like I get the benefits of AK by bluffing A's and K's, while actually having different cards. I've made huge pots with J10s, and won the mediums. I feel like now all of broadway is playable, partly because most people don't call 3 bets with A10 or AJ, so I don't have to worry about being outkicked as much, and lots of folds go down when the AKQ pops up. There's tons of people calling for set/showdown value of PP's, and with J and 10 I hit and they don't believe me, and with AKQ they often fold thinking I hit.

Of course I still 3bet JJ-AA as they are just shearly so strong, but what about swapping out or AK/AQ sometimes for J10s, 89s, 910S, QJs?

lunacy or ?

A good 3-bet range has a lot of "sometimes" and "it depends" in it.

this is a very good strategy until ppl start calling 3bets with a similarly linear range of hands that includes a lot of hands u dominate


very good thread tho and i used a lot of stealth 3betting at ssnl

This is more about merging/blurring ranges than perceived v actual. The harder it is for your opponent to put you on a specific hand, the more your advantage increases.


And remember this about ranges: Your range doesn't exist, if your opponent isn't good enough to put you on one.

I remember Renton mention on 2+2 somewhere whereby not 3betting AA and just calling instead (vs regulars bcoz its wasted on unknowns) a very very small % of the time for deception/perceived range.

Of course you would have to be careful here. I have never done this at all but its just a thought and it probably loses value but if someone sees that you can do that with AA then it fucks with their head when you 3 bet/4 bet etc

actually ive been toying with the idea of cold calling AA to a strong TAG reg's UTG raise like 1-2% of the time and leading any flop.

If i'm being lightly 3 betted I like calling his 3 bet with AA sometimes, but the conditions really have to be right for to want to do this i.e. he's folding to strong 4 bets almost every time but if he's not 4 bet he will take "charge" of the hand on the flop.

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this is a very good strategy until ppl start calling 3bets with a similarly linear range of hands that includes a lot of hands u dominate

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linear range of hands? you mean when they start calling with AJ, A10? If we notice, thats ok because now we just tighten up, but its a pain if only like 1 person at the table notices, then we're out of sync with either the rest of the table or that player. I suppose we can adjust depending on if that 1 or 2 players are in the pot. At least at 200nl no more than 2 players would notice something like this

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Your range doesn't exist, if your opponent isn't good enough to put you on one.

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thats a fucking yoda poker quote, but sadly true. I sometimes want our opponent to think, because then there are more ways we can exploit if they actually think but think badly....



sauce, whats in your stealth range?

This thought made me decide to now only raise AJ+, KQ, 22+ UTG. Everything else for me is a marginal loser and no one is going to notice so I WIN