10/20 Shortstack vs. Isolator vs. Hero

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07-30-2007, 06:00 AM
pocketfours

10/20 Shortstack vs. Isolator vs. Hero

No stats/reads on any of the villains, this was my first hand at the table. I did follow the game a couple of hands before I sat in and UTG shortstack looked like he was there to gamble (he played 1/3 of all pots).

Seat 2: UTG ($212.60 in chips)
Seat 4: CUTOFF ($2483.35 in chips)
Seat 6: BUTTON ($3355.25 in chips)
Seat 7: SB ($3060.60 in chips)
Seat 10: HERO [ AD,QD ] ($2000 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($10), HERO posts blind ($20).

PRE-FLOP
UTG bets $70, CUTOFF folds, BUTTON folds, SB bets $210, HERO... ?

Should I just call or re-isolate with AQs. I'm certainly ahead of the isolators range.

The isolator clearly looks weak, but he knows that I know that, and because of that also my re-isolation play will look much weaker than a normal 4-bet would (which it is).

I actually did re-isolate and raise to 650 (isolator folded, utg called with 44 and I hit my queen on the turn), but afterwards I started to think that because I had position on the isolator, perhaps just calling would have been a better play? Why give free equity to the shortstack by re-isolating?

Looks a bit like a high-risk, low-reward kind of play...
07-30-2007, 09:00 AM
AHiltz

UTG is getting 3.5:1 (albeit against 2 players) to call preflop if you just call.
Since you think that SB is trying to isolate, you should raise to drive him out since you can be pretty sure that you'll be going to showdown vs shorty.
07-30-2007, 01:25 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Do people really isolate shortstacks raising UTG with medium holdings? I'd just fold pre.
07-30-2007, 01:29 PM
sauce123

this is kinda close imo- i dont think i mind calling here
07-30-2007, 01:42 PM
Alexos

I thought this is a pretty std fold pre.

The guy expects to go to showdown with the shortstack, he's not isolating with trash here, although im not sure how tight his range is. No reads i fold.
07-30-2007, 02:08 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHiltz

UTG is getting 3.5:1 (albeit against 2 players) to call preflop if you just call.
Since you think that SB is trying to isolate, you should raise to drive him out since you can be pretty sure that you'll be going to showdown vs shorty.

Sure, that was my plan. The problem is that at this level the players will realize what I'm doing and the original isolator might shove on me. Can I call with AQs? Probably not.

With the isolator in the pot, pokerstove gives me about 36% equity. Without him, I'm at about 54% against UTG's range. So by chasing away the isolator, I'm only gaining around $100. Is that enough to compensate the $400 im putting at risk?

Makes me think that calling would still have been the correct play...
07-30-2007, 02:17 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexos

I thought this is a pretty std fold pre.

The guy expects to go to showdown with the shortstack, he's not isolating with trash here, although im not sure how tight his range is. No reads i fold.

Of course he is not isolating with complete trash, but his range only needs to beat the shortstack's range (by a fair margin of course), which seemed to be about 33% of all hands (and includes garbage like T7s).

Also, when re-isolating, my hand only needs to be ahead of the shortstacks range (which makes it a move basically), and I certainly think that this play is EV+, especially since I have position on the isolator. I just think calling might have been even better.
07-30-2007, 02:23 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Do people really isolate shortstacks raising UTG with medium holdings? I'd just fold pre.

'Medium' is a relative term. If you know the range of the UTG raiser and you think you are ahead of it by a fair margin, wouldn't you play? And being OOP against everyone makes an isolation raise quite mandatory I think.

In position against a probable isolator... No way i'm folding AQs.
07-30-2007, 02:24 PM
AHiltz

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Sure, that was my plan. The problem is that at this level the players will realize what I'm doing and the original isolator might shove on me. Can I call with AQs? Probably not.

With the isolator in the pot, pokerstove gives me about 36% equity. Without him, I'm at about 54% against UTG's range. So by chasing away the isolator, I'm only gaining around $100. Is that enough to compensate the $400 im putting at risk?

Makes me think that calling would still have been the correct play...

But since shorty is so short, we are basically heads up here against the SB. When we are heads up are we not raising AQs like always?

So you're saying only raise AA, KK maybe QQ here?
07-30-2007, 02:25 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

this is kinda close imo- i dont think i mind calling here

Close between raising/calling or folding/calling?
07-30-2007, 02:28 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHiltz

But since shorty is so short, we are basically heads up here against the SB. When we are heads up are we not raising AQs like always?

So you're saying only raise AA, KK maybe QQ here?

We are not re-re-raising (4-betting) AQs normally... :)
08-04-2007, 07:32 PM
Lukie

just out of curiosity, what site is this on? I don't recognize the HH format.
08-04-2007, 08:54 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

just out of curiosity, what site is this on? I don't recognize the HH format.

Betsson (ongame)
08-22-2007, 04:45 AM
allLiving

I think a call would have been the best option on this play, considering you do have positon on the isolator.
08-23-2007, 11:37 AM
Alexos

I dont mind a call here after call. The SS is 10BB deep and cant RR us, we have position on the isolator, and we got AQsoooted.

Call>raise>fold?