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Ok im wading into 6 max guys, auto call?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Hero ($90)
BB ($171)
UTG ($132.70)
MP ($90.40)
CO ($100)
Button ($104.05)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB raises to $171
Insta-call.
How is this an insta-call? Seems like a small favorite/huge dog scenario. A junky KQ is nearly 50/50 with us, and if he has QQ+ we're crushed. I could see if we were getting better odds, but his range would need to be 99+/AQ+ for us to be break even here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
insta-fold.
With all due respect, Fnord, this is usually a donk with QQ+, sometimes AK. Insta-fold, insta-call if you're feeling gambly.
As a SnG player who knows the mathematics of blind battles very well, I'm sure you understand why this has to be a call. I call with TT+ AQs AK because folding isn't very baller.
I fold this with no reads. Im not that happy about it though.
Trik, what stakes of sngs do you usually play? just curious.
90BB effective stacks and no time pressure to accumulate chips makes this an easy fold.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
No reads? Nothing? How could this be an insta-call against an unknown player?
If it wouldn't be a blind on blind battle I would fold in an instant. But I have seen this often to be AQo and the like. I am leaning towards calling about 60/40.
114s mostly. Its the highest level on stars you can play and turn a profit. After that the play is just 2 solid and my roi is 2 low to play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode-ist
I would never call this with AQs being that this is AK half the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
Btw i did call thinking he had AK and he did. I won the hand. I dont know if I would do this at higher stakes though, but i could resist gambooling at 100nl.
Put him on a range that includes KQ and then see whether we're "crushed" by it. BTW I'm sure that if you were the one in the SB, and the BB was shoving 99+, AQ+ over your raises, he'd win a lot of money off of you in the long run. He could push a much wider range than that actually. That doesn't mean shoving 100 BB is the best way to play, it just shows how bad it is to fold hands as strong as JJ heads-up.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
Cash game players like to make fun of donkament players but I think donkament players have a much better understanding of what hands you can profitably get all-in preflop with, depending on your position and stack size. They've actually done the math on how likely each hand is to be beat. It's not difficult math. It takes like a couple of hours maybe, and what with how aggressive the games are getting and people getting AI pre-flop a lot more often, I think it would behoove cash game players to do this math as well.
Cliff notes: don't fold JJ heads-up for 100 BB. Unless villain is piscogay, then you can fold.
Trifklow, I just don't think you can narrow his range down that much to being AK half the time. Someone who sucks enough to play like this is probably doing the same thing with a lot of worse hands too. TT and AQs are borderline for sure, but a policy of pretty much never folding them heads-up hasn't really hurt me you'd be surprised how often I have the best hand when I get all-in with them.
KQo is actually 1% better against JJ than AQo is. So adding KQ really doesn't change much. Pokerstove shows JJ at 51.3% equity against 99+/KQ/AQ+, and 50.2% equity without the KQ in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
I started as mainly a donkament NLH and LHE/PL Omaha cash game player. I've only just recently gotten into NL cash games. But it seems that one of the major adjustments is that most people don't just go all in preflop with any old 2 big cards like they do with <20 BBs in a tournament.Quote:
Cash game players like to make fun of donkament players but I think donkament players have a much better understanding of what hands you can profitably get all-in preflop with, depending on your position and stack size.
A read is really needed before you start calling 100BB all ins with very low odds. If I had seen this guy do this kind of raise before, then we can start widening his range and loosening our calls. But against an unknown at 100NL who pushes his whole stack over your 4BB raise, you'll very often end up against either AA, KK, QQ or AK. Huge dog, huge dog, huge dog and small favorite, respectively.Quote:
Cliff notes: don't fold JJ heads-up for 100 BB. Unless villain is piscogay, then you can fold.
Trifklow, I just don't think you can narrow his range down that much to being AK half the time. Someone who sucks enough to play like this is probably doing the same thing with a lot of worse hands too. TT and AQs are borderline for sure, but a policy of pretty much never folding them heads-up hasn't really hurt me you'd be surprised how often I have the best hand when I get all-in with them.
There just aren't that many players that are going to be pushing 100BBs as their first reraise with hands like AJ and 1010 at 100NL. I've started my 6max "career" at 50NL, and people are generally very tight with their 3bets. Sure there are a few maniacs, but against an unknown a strong hand is almost a given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
ARRRRRR-IN!!!
fold if the guy is a huge huge nit, or call and let him hit top set but backdoor a straight, that's probably your best bet.
tell us what you know already, even if nothing
Wow, he must have really nitted up since the last time I played him. Total spew monkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
i think you badly underestimate good mid-high stakes cash game players in this regard.Quote:
Cash game players like to make fun of donkament players but I think donkament players have a much better understanding of what hands you can profitably get all-in preflop with, depending on your position and stack size. They've actually done the math on how likely each hand is to be beat. It's not difficult math. It takes like a couple of hours maybe, and what with how aggressive the games are getting and people getting AI pre-flop a lot more often, I think it would behoove cash game players to do this math as well.
Results: You called, he flipped ATo or something equally shitty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trikflow77
i call because his range contains A2s
Possibly. I'm only going by the posts I've read on here and 2p2. You've actually played in those games so you'd know a lot better than I would. From your posts you seem to understand pre-flop equities pretty well, but there have to be a lot of players who don't, otherwise guys like IMSAKIDD and stinkypete wouldn't be profitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukie