Good use of ISF theorem?

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09-12-2007, 09:02 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Good use of ISF theorem?

bettor in this hand is a semi LAGG who would have 3-bet TT and KK pre, possibly even 88.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($102.95)
Hero ($265.60)
CO ($200.85)
Button ($372.80)
SB ($219)
BB ($235)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $2, Hero raises to $10, CO calls $10, Button calls $10, SB calls $9, 1 fold, UTG calls $8.

Flop: ($52) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO bets $33, Button folds, SB folds, UTG folds, Hero raises to $100

Final Pot: $118
09-12-2007, 09:08 PM
bigspenda73

I really don't get why you would check any kind of made hand here though, the pot's big enough to protect and it's 5way, I just don't think your line makes any sense.

As for the ISF theorem, your range after you CHECK is not ahead of his range, so bluffing would be incorrect here methinks.
09-12-2007, 09:15 PM
2_Thumbs_Up

I agree with bigspenda. Do you ever c/r a made hand here?
09-12-2007, 10:11 PM
IowaSkinsFan

I think I like it because its 200nl and it doesnt really matter what your repping. Although even though the only hands he stacks off with are t8 and 88, im not sure what he's betting either.
09-12-2007, 11:30 PM
sauce123

spew!
09-12-2007, 11:39 PM
Genitruc

just cuz he doesn t have a set doesn t mean he can t put you on QJ

KT and QJ are a big part of his range here and I'd doubt he ll fold either of them

He prob folds KQ and KJ...

If ISF is right and it doesn't matter what you're repping then this is pointless but if you want to bluff him off of a top pair type hand I'd just call and CR the turn.
09-13-2007, 12:21 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

just cuz he doesn t have a set doesn t mean he can t put you on QJ

KT and QJ are a big part of his range here and I'd doubt he ll fold either of them

He prob folds KQ and KJ...

If ISF is right and it doesn't matter what you're repping then this is pointless but if you want to bluff him off of a top pair type hand I'd just call and CR the turn.

We're ahead of QJ and J9 and 97. I doubt he puts us on QJ, i think most of the time opp is going to concede that we flopped a set and fold.
09-13-2007, 12:40 AM
Genitruc

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

just cuz he doesn t have a set doesn t mean he can t put you on QJ

KT and QJ are a big part of his range here and I'd doubt he ll fold either of them

He prob folds KQ and KJ...

If ISF is right and it doesn't matter what you're repping then this is pointless but if you want to bluff him off of a top pair type hand I'd just call and CR the turn.

We're ahead of QJ and J9 and 97. I doubt he puts us on QJ, i think most of the time opp is going to concede that we flopped a set and fold.

being ahead of his draw is kind of irrelevant ; if we're called we have a nothing bet left into a huge pot OOP.

I agree that our line has some fear factor to it but an aggro like Max checking a flop with a big card that many draws 5 ways seems just way too crazy.

Like I mentioned be4, maybe the "believability" of our line is pointless at this level, but I think in terms of basic hand-repping this line just isn't credible.
09-13-2007, 12:49 AM
Renton

bet flop shove turn is better than this
09-13-2007, 12:55 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

meh, at 200NL it's plausible that a TAGG player would check top or mid set here.

Just FYI he instafolded.
09-13-2007, 01:05 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

bet flop shove turn is better than this

maybe, certainly better against better players.
09-13-2007, 01:07 AM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

meh, at 200NL it's plausible that a TAGG player would check top or mid set here.

i think you can blanket rule that any all in bluff against weak players at low stakes that ONLY REPRESENTS 4 COMBOS, is probably bad.
09-13-2007, 03:05 PM
werewolf98

where is ISF theorm?
09-13-2007, 03:06 PM
gabe

they might not have it, but they can know that you dont have it either
09-13-2007, 03:37 PM
IowaSkinsFan

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58517.htm
09-13-2007, 03:46 PM
werewolf98

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-58517.htm

ty sir
09-13-2007, 03:47 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

This is a arguement utterly over opinion, but i just don't see why this doesn't rep KK, TT, or 88. I probably wouldn't play them this way, but i don't think every player will think this is a bluff. I think a good amount of players will view this as strong or just not have the balls to showdown KQ or shove QJ or J9.
09-13-2007, 03:54 PM
Genitruc

agreed but if opp knows you're "good" then it s nutz
09-13-2007, 05:03 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

This is a arguement utterly over opinion, but i just don't see why this doesn't rep KK, TT, or 88. I probably wouldn't play them this way, but i don't think every player will think this is a bluff. I think a good amount of players will view this as strong or just not have the balls to showdown KQ or shove QJ or J9.

It's just very hard to respond to these hands because they are so fundamentally unsound. I ignored that however.