600NL, I need bet sizing help

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10-18-2007, 08:20 PM
IowaSkinsFan

600NL, I need bet sizing help

Opp is 21/19 straight forward type reg. I threebet him the last hand and haven't been too active so i suspect that he doesn't think i'm threebetting light. But who knows, he could think im tilting or something.
When he calls the flop tbh I pretty much am going to three barrel any hand as long as a club doesnt come but I have a flush so its not about FE. When he calls the flop I'm a little stunned because I'm pretty sure at this point he has either AcT-AcK, QcQ, and sometimes an A high flush or other flushes.

I think my turn bet size was bad, river bet was about pot. I was talking to Fnord and he thinks a big leak in my game is pot control with my bet sizing and I'd like to improve that.

POKERSTARS GAME #12705040496: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2007/10/18 - 17:27:55 (ET)
Table 'Eugenia' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Radioheads ($591 in chips)
Seat 2: Waugl12 ($577.05 in chips)
Seat 3: Sulzi ($1242.45 in chips)
Seat 4: kustomkar ($2857.60 in chips)
Seat 5: adsanman12 ($609.55 in chips)
Seat 6: heybude ($1240 in chips)
heybude: posts small blind $3
Radioheads: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [6c 3c]
Waugl12: folds
Sulzi: raises $12 to $18
kustomkar: folds
adsanman12: folds
heybude: raises $60 to $78
Radioheads: folds
Sulzi: calls $60
*** FLOP *** [7c Kc Jc]
heybude: bets $120
Sulzi: calls $120
*** TURN *** [7c Kc Jc] [8s]
heybude: bets $216 (I think this should've been something like 300)
Sulzi: calls $216
*** RIVER *** [7c Kc Jc 8s] [5s]
heybude: bets $826 and is all-in
10-18-2007, 08:52 PM
zook

Yeah, bet more on the turn to make your river push 3/4 pot-ish. Even $250 works.

I like the slightly bigger 3bet pre with 200bb stacks, but I think I remember you saying you don't do that... you just widen your range to take away implieds. Or am I thinking of someone else?
10-18-2007, 09:08 PM
Renton

i really hate the 3bet pre
10-18-2007, 09:29 PM
silu73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

i really hate the 3bet pre

Preflop is questionable but the size of your 3-bet is good. However, this 3-bet works well against regulars and 200bb deep.

Turn bet is way to small imo. I would bet a minimum $275 as I want him to call a river push which is no more than 3/4 pot. You should make him believe that the river push was out of desperation and your only way to win this pot. Pump your fist when he calls.
10-18-2007, 09:35 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

i really hate the 3bet pre

Preflop is questionable but the size of your 3-bet is good. However, this 3-bet works well against regulars and 200bb deep.

i don't think so.

I think any decent player is going to own you with position and these stacks.
10-18-2007, 09:45 PM
gabe

i dont like the size of the 3 bet

you know the answer to your question, you should have bet more on turn, like at least 250
10-18-2007, 10:38 PM
silu73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

i really hate the 3bet pre

Preflop is questionable but the size of your 3-bet is good. However, this 3-bet works well against regulars and 200bb deep.

i don't think so.

I think any decent player is going to own you with position and these stacks.

Fair enough. I was basically remembering a Cardrunners tutor who said that you shouldn't only use your good hands for 3-betting a regular out of the blinds but to mix it sometimes with trash hands as well. I personally wouldn't do it with 63s though.

Isn't 3-betting 3.5-4x the raise OOP with deep stacks standard?
10-18-2007, 11:34 PM
Renton

i'd be totally fine with the 3bet if we had position
10-18-2007, 11:55 PM
gabe

the 3bet itself is fine as long as its far from standard
10-19-2007, 12:27 AM
sauce123

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

the 3bet itself is fine as long as its far from standard

yea, just size ur bets so u have 3/4 pot on riverish

and def dont checkraise anywhere
10-19-2007, 12:54 AM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

the 3bet itself is fine as long as its far from standard

so you think we are making money in a vacuum by 3betting this preflop, when considering that he's going to call us with a wide range and position?
10-19-2007, 01:07 AM
gabe

i dont judge any of my hands from a "vacuum" perpsective
10-19-2007, 01:10 AM
sauce123

when Taurus is in the house of Neptune Gabe 3bets 46s to UTG raisers and bets TP for three streets of value.
10-19-2007, 02:14 AM
gabe

couldnt have said it better
10-19-2007, 09:27 AM
IowaSkinsFan

I'd like to recant the statement that this guy is going to call a lot of hands pre, he hasn't been calling threebets light at all.

So what's the threebet? 66? 72?
10-19-2007, 09:45 AM
gabe

anyone like river check

or underbet might be sick
10-19-2007, 09:58 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Does everyone agree with the AK, AJ, QQ assesment of likely range?
Because if so I don't like a river check.
10-19-2007, 10:39 AM
sauce123

i think anything other than bet/bet/shove here would be a disaster
10-19-2007, 12:41 PM
gabe

betting $150 on riv just seems fun, push seems like a better bluff
10-19-2007, 02:06 PM
Toadstool

From another perspective this is ok because from his point of view, your smallish bet on the turn probably means your range is more weighted towards a draw (assuming he hasnt got the Ac) and your river push is a missed draw.
10-19-2007, 08:29 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadstool

From another perspective this is ok because from his point of view, your smallish bet on the turn probably means your range is more weighted towards a draw (assuming he hasnt got the Ac) and your river push is a missed draw.

I think people have gotten past this level, which is why i didnt like this line, but that was my reasoning at the time. Kind of like "Well i'll make a small bet on the turn and if he doesn't shove he can't have anything good so ill shove bluff him!"
10-21-2007, 05:57 AM
pantherhound

did he call
10-21-2007, 12:53 PM
sauce123

panther- zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
10-21-2007, 08:10 PM
IowaSkinsFan

no he folded.
10-21-2007, 11:12 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

i think anything other than bet/bet/shove here would be a disaster

yeah

Quote:

i dont like the size of the 3 bet

Usually when the stacks are deep I will 3-bet bigger until i have an image of light 3-betting, then i'll go to smaller sizing. Is this wrong?

that being said, 36s shouldn't be 3-bet at all if you have to do that size.