a hand reading exercise

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10-30-2007, 07:14 PM
Lukie

a hand reading exercise

villain is 20/15/3 type reg. He's hasn't been getting out of line but is capable of a move every once in a while. Hero has been 3-betting back at him quite a bit.

What kind of range do we put this guy on? How often do you think he folds? Is our shove reasonable (I thought so or else I wouldn't have).

What about preflop... is calling or 3-betting better? What about 3-betting a different amount or making a more conventional-sized c-bet on the flop.. . What about checking???

So many aspects to consider in a typical hand... stuff you don't see in typical threads.

Begin........... wherever. you. wish. (if at all)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($199.75)
Button ($613)
SB ($501.10)
Hero ($1481.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jc.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif.
1 fold, Button raises to $21, 1 fold, Hero raises to $72, Button calls $51.

Flop: ($147) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kd.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $72, Button raises to $224, Hero raises to $1409.7,

317 to villain he's getting 3:1ish
10-30-2007, 07:16 PM
Lukie

also its worth noting that 'excersize' is in fact spelled 'exercise'. who woulda thought?
10-30-2007, 07:45 PM
bigspenda73

what made hands do you actually take this line with?
10-30-2007, 08:05 PM
Irisheyes

range is AA/KK/AK/KQ/AQdd/ and it beats us. I doubt he would turn QQ into a bluff just because you cbet smallish.

I think if you want to do a move like this then check raising is better since he bet/folds a wider range then he will raise/fold IMO.

pf is fine.
10-30-2007, 08:53 PM
bode

preflop is standard. Why such a small c-bet? That makes it more likely that villain would turn TT-QQ into a bluff. Im kinda with spenda though, what other hands do you do this with?
10-30-2007, 10:33 PM
IowaSkinsFan

1. To make this remotely good he needs to be calling a lot of reraises OTB. I'm going to be calling a lot from the blinds if this isn't the case.
2. IMO his raise size screams flush draw. Most people will balance there lines here raising like 2.5x times your bet to a cbet. It really seems like he wants to commit himself.
3. I tend to never check here, but obviously if you feel threebetting all in is good that's a fine reason not to check. If you cbet i two barrel a lot if he's a pussy/bad.
4. This is also a hand where flow of the table and timing is huge, which makes it really really hard to comment.

Given that you feel 4 made it better i like everything.
10-31-2007, 12:21 AM
sauce123

id shove this for value against pretty much any 20/15/3 in this spot
10-31-2007, 04:05 AM
Irisheyes

so are we saying he 4bets pf AK then?
10-31-2007, 11:22 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

so are we saying he 4bets pf AK then?

its definetely more likely than not.
10-31-2007, 01:02 PM
gabe

so i play good right??

Seat 1: Sauce123 ($436 in chips)
Seat 2: gp333 ($244 in chips)
Sauce123: posts small blind $1
gp333: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gp333 [8s 7h]
Sauce123: raises $5 to $7
gp333: raises $17 to $24
Sauce123: calls $17
*** FLOP *** [Kc 6h 4s]
gp333: bets $32
Sauce123: raises $42 to $74
gp333: raises $146 to $220 and is all-in
10-31-2007, 01:49 PM
IowaSkinsFan

valuetowning 75?
10-31-2007, 02:32 PM
gabe

no, trying to semibluff him like lukie is doing
10-31-2007, 03:30 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

no, trying to semibluff him like lukie is doing

oh weird i thought this was obvious value???
10-31-2007, 03:46 PM
gabe

seriously though what is sauce raising that flop with
10-31-2007, 04:00 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

seriously though what is sauce raising that flop with

What? I don't doubt he does this with like 77 and felts. Unless this is some hole in his game that of im unaware. surely he has sets AA/KK/AK at least sometimes. But you're going to see 77-QQ and Kx maybe even 6x felt here if I know sauce well (and i do i play him hu a lot)
10-31-2007, 05:10 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

what made hands do you actually take this line with?

i'd be thrilled with b3b'ing allin with KQ or better on this board given action. Probably any 2 diamonds if given the chance. (flush draws hit at least 50% on stars)
10-31-2007, 05:12 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

range is AA/KK/AK/KQ/AQdd/ and it beats us. I doubt he would turn QQ into a bluff just because you cbet smallish.

I think if you want to do a move like this then check raising is better since he bet/folds a wider range then he will raise/fold IMO.

pf is fine.

i strongly, strongly disagree with your range here. while obviously all of those hands are part of his range, i think all of them combined even make up a relatively small part of it.

I think the lukewarm hands like QQ or something like K9s get called way more often then raised on this board. I think his really strong/committing raise really polarizes his range and given action and dynamics i still feel like very strong made hands (say, KQ or better) make up a fairly small part of his range.
10-31-2007, 05:13 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

preflop is standard. Why such a small c-bet? That makes it more likely that villain would turn TT-QQ into a bluff. Im kinda with spenda though, what other hands do you do this with?

the plan was to induce a light raise so i could shove to be 100% honest. also b/c it's great for metagame, changes postflop into more of a 3-bet as opposed to 2-bet game postflop, lots of reasons.
10-31-2007, 05:15 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

1. To make this remotely good he needs to be calling a lot of reraises OTB. I'm going to be calling a lot from the blinds if this isn't the case.
2. IMO his raise size screams flush draw. Most people will balance there lines here raising like 2.5x times your bet to a cbet. It really seems like he wants to commit himself.
3. I tend to never check here, but obviously if you feel threebetting all in is good that's a fine reason not to check. If you cbet i two barrel a lot if he's a pussy/bad.
4. This is also a hand where flow of the table and timing is huge, which makes it really really hard to comment.

Given that you feel 4 made it better i like everything.

1. this is a really good point and you're onto something here for sure.

2. i agree, timing tells also suggested this

3. sometimes i check here for balance on these dry K and A high boards because good regs assume that other good regs know that villains missed these boards and are apt to fire here near 100% of the time, so if we can throw them off........

4. i agree, pretty much sums up my thoughts on most of these types of decisions
10-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

id shove this for value against pretty much any 20/15/3 in this spot

i wouldn't go this far but i felt like this was a really good spot to do it. YOU'RE CRAZY THOUGH SON SO YOU'D PROBABLY GET SNAP CALLED BY ATo!!
10-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

so are we saying he 4bets pf AK then?

guessing 80%
10-31-2007, 05:18 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

so i play good right??

Seat 1: Sauce123 ($436 in chips)
Seat 2: gp333 ($244 in chips)
Sauce123: posts small blind $1
gp333: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gp333 [8s 7h]
Sauce123: raises $5 to $7
gp333: raises $17 to $24
Sauce123: calls $17
*** FLOP *** [Kc 6h 4s]
gp333: bets $32
Sauce123: raises $42 to $74
gp333: raises $146 to $220 and is all-in

it's hu and u shoved a draw in a 3-bet put heads up in an extremely laggy game, congrats, thanks for the hijack
11-03-2007, 02:59 PM
Lukie

he called with QJ dd
11-03-2007, 03:07 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

2. IMO his raise size screams flush draw.