Some (weak?) folds

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11-02-2007, 03:09 AM
bbqsquirrel

Some (weak?) folds

Comments sought
Berate whenever appropriate

Hand 1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($101.50)
BB ($118.60)
UTG ($24.20)
UTG+1 ($84.70)
BBQSquirrel ($101.80)
MP2 ($101.95)
CO ($95.95)
Button ($184.90)

Preflop: BBQSquirrel is MP1 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, BBQSquirrel calls $1, MP2 calls $1, CO calls $1, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($5.50) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $3, BBQSquirrel calls $3, MP2 folds, CO folds, BB calls $3.

Turn: ($14.50) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $8, BBQSquirrel calls $8, BB folds.

River: ($30.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $27, BBQSquirrel folds.

Final Pot: $30.50

Hand 2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Button ($81.25)
BBQSquirrel ($87.85)
BB ($101.95)
UTG ($64.50)
MP ($76.05)

Preflop: BBQSquirrel is SB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qh.gif.
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, BBQSquirrel completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8c.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/9d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ts.gif (3 players)
BBQSquirrel checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

Turn: ($3) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jd.gif (3 players)
BBQSquirrel checks, BB bets $2, UTG raises to $8, BBQSquirrel folds, BB calls $6.

River: ($19) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2s.gif (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $14, BB calls $14.

Final Pot: $47

Hand 3
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($128)
BB ($100)
UTG ($54.15)
UTG+1 ($196.90)
BBQSquirrel ($246.40)
MP2 ($102.25)
MP3 ($106.35)
CO ($56.50)
Button ($99.50)

Preflop: BBQSquirrel is MP1 with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kd.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ks.gif.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, BBQSquirrel raises to $4, 2 folds, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $3.

Flop: ($21) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/th.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/3h.gif (5 players)
SB bets $14, UTG folds, BBQSquirrel folds, CO calls $14, Button folds.

Turn: ($49) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/6d.gif (2 players)
SB bets $39, CO calls $38.50 (All-In).

River: ($126) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jc.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $126

Hand 4
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP1 ($73.85)
MP2 ($97.50)
MP3 ($92.05)
CO ($249.20)
Button ($102)
Hero ($99)
BB ($104.80)
UTG ($104.35)
UTG+1 ($92.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/5s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2s.gif.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1, 1 fold, MP3 calls $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($6) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/js.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/7s.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $2, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $2, BB calls $2.

Turn: ($12) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8s.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls $10, UTG calls $10.

River: ($42) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/6d.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $14, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: $42

Hand 5
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($72.10)
Button ($51.95)
SB ($173)
Hero ($114.60)
UTG ($157.90)
MP1 ($100)
MP2 ($148.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kd.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kc.gif.
1 fold, MP1 raises to $4, 1 fold, CO calls $4, 1 fold, SB calls $3.50, Hero raises to $17, MP1 calls $13, CO calls $13, SB folds.

Flop: ($55) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qs.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jh.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $10, CO raises to $20, Hero folds, MP1 calls $10.

Turn: ($95) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/js.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $10, CO raises to $20, MP1 raises to $30, CO raises to $35.1, MP1 calls $5.10.

River: ($165.20) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $165.20
11-02-2007, 08:42 AM
XTR1000

#1 I prefer to raise KQs in MP. ap, I raise flop to 8, to define hands and to hopefully fold out MP2 and CO. Any reads on UTG?

#2 Wow. I´d call at least. One hand beats us, we beat a good chunk of sets/2pair/TP-hands.

#3 SB´s bet is suspicious. I´d raise to ~30 and fold to push/turn donk.His bet could easily be any Ah-combo, TT/JJ

#5 U cant fold getting 5.5:1

#6 Leading the flop will make decisions easier. Ap, I´d check/felt here
11-02-2007, 01:46 PM
EricE

Number your hands.

Hand 4: I can’t fold here. He calls until the 1 card straight is possible and he is checked to on the river. I call at least.

You fold as weak as I do but you do it one street earlier. There is a lesson in that for me. If I could find a fold earlier I would save a ton of money (assuming I’ll fold later anyway).

Also, I have no doubt that at least one of these are folded winning hands but I can’t find it.
11-02-2007, 02:37 PM
martindcx1e

1) WTF are you folding for?!?
2) WTF are you folding for?!?
4) WTF are you folding for?!?
11-02-2007, 03:03 PM
bbqsquirrel

Hand 2 SB hand Q2, UTG had AQ
Hand 3 SB had T9o no hearts, CO had 33
Hand 5 PFOR had AJ, coldcaller had QQ
11-02-2007, 03:58 PM
martindcx1e

really though bbq, i don't want to just yell at you and say don't fold. if you are doing this stuff with any regularity then you have a leak. at least your leak is on the side of caution though and not on the side of tard-spew. can you take us through your thought process in 1,2, and 4?
11-02-2007, 04:12 PM
EricE

Hehe.
Let my try it:

Hand 1: Ive improved to trips but my opponent is betting hard (near pot) on a scary board. The pot was limped PF so he didn’t like his hand enough to raise. So he either has Kx where x is low or he has 22,55,44. [a straight is possible but extremely remote]. I fear he has a set, I am not calling that!

Hand 2: He limped UTG so it is possible he has KQ. He is betting hard on a 1 card straight board so he must have at least a straight. Not to mention that the SB has something but who knows what. I MUST be behind to one of them. I am outa here.

Somewhat close bbqsquirrel?
11-02-2007, 04:15 PM
bbqsquirrel

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

really though bbq, i don't want to just yell at you and say don't fold. if you are doing this stuff with any regularity then you have a leak. at least your leak is on the side of caution though and not on the side of tard-spew. can you take us through your thought process in 1,2, and 5?

Hand 1
Opponent is not out of line. He fired flop multiway, got called in 2 places but fired out a slightly smaller bet again on turn when flush draws are dead, and then bet close to full pot on river. Therefore I think he has a set turned house.

Hand 2

I played this weak because 1) both opponents are non-donks 2) possibly of KQ (esp by UTG) 3) possibility of somebody freerolling w/ Qdxd, or AQ which is indeed the case here

Here's why I check turn: Who's going to call turn? Probably not even a 7, since the holder of a 7 will have to fear another bet on the river. If I wait till river before valuebetting I'll probably get calls from 7 / 2-pairs since they have no fear against "hammer of future bet"

On the other hand what if I bet and get raised -- call and evaluate river? Most of the time river changes nothing, and I have to call another stiff bet hoping for a split at best ala what DaMinkie (BB) had to go through. Or if river is a K/Q/diamond, and then we check/call? check/fold? bet/fold? bluff and represent the flush/higher straight? Since the pot is now bigger, neither give up nor call down seems too attractive

In conclusion I don't think this is a big-pot situation, and checking turn certainly keeps the pot size in control.

Hand 5
I though this is one of the more standard folds. KK on QJx board in a reraised pot and OOP. I was putting CO on JJ -- when he minraised flop it was an instant muck.

I was most bothered by hand 4 (52s). The guy bet weak on flop on a drawy board and called behind caller when the flush came and I fired turn strong. Plus BB was sticking around with who knows what hand.
However, the more I thought about it the more I hated the fold, because of the cheap price I was getting.
11-02-2007, 04:40 PM
martindcx1e

whoops i meant hand 4 when i said 5...i will edit

in hand 1 your hand is really really under-repped. you played like you had a flush draw. it's a limped pot and a worse K is very likely.

also, in hand 2 you are forgetting that turned flush draws will call your bet (limped pot and checked flop makes this a real possiblity), and i think you are underestimating how often a 7 calls.

and it sounds like you already know that hand 4 was a bad bad fold.
11-02-2007, 05:09 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

1) WTF are you limping ?!?
2) WTF are you completing?!?
4) WTF are you completing?!?

fyp
11-02-2007, 05:14 PM
martindcx1e

lol well ya that too warpe.
11-02-2007, 05:45 PM
bigspenda73

you constantly run 1ptbb and get chewed up by the good TAGG's right or am I completely misinterpreting your style of play.
11-02-2007, 06:40 PM
spoonitnow

Hand 1: Raise preflop imo? As played I have no clue.

Hand 2: Meh. You've voluntarily put $0.50 in the pot, so understandable fold. Edit: I just realized that this is 5-handed, so maybe a raise preflop is good here.

Hand 3: Raise more preflop to cut in against the odds underpairs and suited-connectors and shit have against you. As played, I think it depends on what you think of SB donking out like that. I probably raise flop.

Hand 4: Check/call on the river is good here, except you misclicked and folded on accident instead.

Hand 5: What kind of flop were you looking to hit? KKx? I lead here because of the flush and straight draws but against certain opponents I could go for a check/shove here as well.
11-02-2007, 07:37 PM
martindcx1e

oh ya hand 5 is really bad too. first how can you check a multiway flop with draws when you hold a big overpair and secondly how can you c/f a big overpair especially when the bet to you is 20 to win 90?
11-03-2007, 10:36 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

you constantly run 1ptbb and get chewed up by the good TAGG's right or am I completely misinterpreting your style of play.

i just realized bbq just posted 22k stats checkup a bit ago with a winrate of like 10BB/100 lol. i don't get how if he's making these kinds of folds.
11-03-2007, 11:54 PM
Deanglow

I just realized I end up allin in like at least three of these if I were in the same position. Hand 4 keeps me up at night. How could you fold that???
11-04-2007, 02:00 AM
bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

you constantly run 1ptbb and get chewed up by the good TAGG's right or am I completely misinterpreting your style of play.

i just realized bbq just posted 22k stats checkup a bit ago with a winrate of like 10BB/100 lol. i don't get how if he's making these kinds of folds.

:oops:
11-04-2007, 02:05 AM
Deanglow

I think your w@SD% (60% if I remember correctly) is too damn high. You need to pick up the phone on these damn hands.
11-04-2007, 05:11 AM
bbqsquirrel

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

you constantly run 1ptbb and get chewed up by the good TAGG's right or am I completely misinterpreting your style of play.

i just realized bbq just posted 22k stats checkup a bit ago with a winrate of like 10BB/100 lol. i don't get how if he's making these kinds of folds.

:oops:

I just logged another ~2o k hands where I run at a more humanly rate. My rate had dropped down to like 7.5 now

Some of them (3 and 5) turned out be good folds
Hands 1 I already offered my insight. The guy was a non-donk so all I beat was KJs/KTs while I lose to AK/sets
Hand 2 .......
Hand 3 (KsKd on a 10-high triple heart board) I thoght people will berate me a lot. Obviously I thought too highly of SB.
Hand 4 I regret.
Hand 5 (Folding KK on a QJx board in a reraised pot) I thought is even trivial. I can't believe you guys are advocating me to go AI, hoping AQ would call?