Live Play - Counting The Pot

Hi,

This may be obvious to answer but I have been playing the past 2 weeks in a pub league environment. I am doing it purely for the experience of live play. One thing I have noticed is that when there's a busy hand, I lose track of what's in the pot and thus my pot odds.

Is it legit to ask for a count before I ask or should I be able to keep up with play myself?

As it's self deal on small tables, it can get really confusing, with questions over people being in or out, whether the blinds weren't posted, not enough room for the flop to be laid out neatly etc.


I have also noted there are very few tells on display. No obvious ones anyway such as traditional body language & facial muscles tells. Is this the norm in a "no risk" game or is it a case that there are tells a plenty and that I just haven't picked up on them?

Cheers.

You playing the Nuts Poker League?

I tend to keep reasonable track of the pot size, and as far as I know, in casinos you can ask the dealer to spread the pot, but not count it.

In terms of tells, damn, look harder! Maybe you're playing with a bunch of twats who try not to move whilst wearing sunglasses/baseball cap, but general pissheads have.. to an extent, too many tells.

Some basics:

- In my experience, concrete tells are very rare, and more often than not tells serve to relay a variable level of comfortablility/uncomfortability - the guy pulling off the bluff may exhibit something similar to the newbie who's just been dealt Aces.

- Something that's helped me a lot is putting myself in my opponent's shoes - imitating their exact posture in my mind's eye and trying to work out what's going through their mind.

- The only thing that's near concrete is eyes - staring right at you can often be an attempt at intimidation, which can often mean a bluff, although again, I wouldn't say this worked more than 80% of the time.

Thx for the reply Ash.

It's the English Poker League - though full of just as many donks as $1 MTTs - I had hoped for a higher level of play/understanding. And why pay £2 at a time + drinks when that can be SNG/MTT buy ins?

I hadn't played with these guys much and so no idea of hand range or their personal traits. By and large (and a few sheepish grins apart) no one seems to be showing too much of anything. I shall look harder, lol!

a good and fairly reliable tell that a lot of newer players have is that they get really wound up with a big hand. look at the neck and see the pounding pulse, or look at the shaky hands as they sheepishly slide chips into the pot. it is a lot harder to control for new live players than some of the other tells.

depending on the player you may need to adjust exactly what constitutes a good hand though. I have seen it at the casino from a guy with aces, and I have seen it at a home game from a guy that had AJ and hit the A, so its not always a true monster, just a monster to them.

in terms of the pot, just make sure you don't try to touch it, that is out. if you can't keep track of it, just take a quick look and make a rough guess as to what's in there. your numbers don't need to be precise, just a ballpark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash256

as far as I know, in casinos you can ask the dealer to spread the pot, but not count it.

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This is correct.

If I ever need to know the pot size, I will stop a moment and replay the action in my head. You don't need to know the exact number of chips, just a good approximation. So if it was raised PF, count the number of ppl who called the raise and that's how around how many chips are in on the flop. Definitely add antes if necessary, they often add quite a bit to the pot. It will be easier with practice. I play a lot of $60 tournaments at my local casino, and it's solely for live practice. I find I have a hard time when I play different tournaments with different structures because it's hard to keep track of chips and stacks for me. Practice practice practice ...

As for tells, Ash mentioned eyes. I like looking at a player's eyes when cards fall, whether it be the flop, turn, or river. A lot of players will quickly glance at their chip stack if they hit any given card, wondering how much they should bet when the action gets to them. Next time you play, look for this even if you're not in the hand; I think you might find this is true for at least a few players.

On the subject of replaying in your mind, can any of you perform what pros say is essential, and replay how people bet/played previous hands so as to get a handle on what they've got in the current hand?

You know, "the last time he check raised on the flop, out of position, firing out a $400 raise was when he showed....."

I'll be honest, I don't - can't - keep track of multiple opponents' moves even though it seems to be essential.

Practice ... I couldn't at first and now I can remember things a lot better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by courtiebee

Practice ... I couldn't at first and now I can remember things a lot better.

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Kinda like I remember Jessica Alba's ass a lot better now.

Am I the only one not to be impressed with Jessica Alba?

Yes. Yes you are.


As said above both are practice. There will be millions of tells floating about in your pub game if its anything like mine. With time you will start to pick up on them. What are they watching? Their cards? Your chips? The board?

I have found that when newish players look at the flop for a long time on straighty type boards they are often trying to count out what cards will make them a straight :p. Another fairly common one is people instacalling bets on drawy boards.

As for counting the pot I try to keep a track of it in my head using courties method. After a few beers I always lose count though.