TT in BvB

villain in this hand is 20/18/3ish. he seems to think i bluff a lot, so he it seems like hes more aggro agaisnt me, but i could be wrong.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($196)
Hero ($227.25)
BB ($200)
UTG ($262.55)
MP ($204.35)
CO ($117)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to $6, BB raises to $20, Hero calls $14.

Flop: ($40) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $30, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($100) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($100) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: $100

ship it

Do you check the river because you think a Q is in his range? So the river is a c/f?

I think I like a fourbet pre a lot better. TT just plays really bad postflop threebet pot OOP when you called a reraise.

As played this is fine. I don't think I try and bluff river.

I do like a four bet pre aswell, but my question is what happens if he A:he calls. Autoshove? B: What happens pre if he shoves over 4-bet?

I think if he shoves over we have to fold. If he just calls I pretty much want to c/f the flop. If he would shove with AK here which is very likely I might push on a flop with an A or K.

I think 4bet/calling preflop is an OK line against this guy.

if we 4bet its not going to be to fold wtf.

yea folding to a 5bet is horrible. as played why are we not c/ring flop?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

yea folding to a 5bet is horrible. as played why are we not c/ring flop?

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so we don't get blown off our hand? Is it a fold if they shove over our c/r?

Since if I raise it's at least to 100 I'm not getting blown off anything.

I don't see how calling flop can be right since we're giving him greater opportunity to get us off our equity, and we can't know where we're at until all in. We're 2.5:1 to the absolute worst of his range, 2:1 to a more reasonable worse of his range. I imagine we're better than that vs his felting range though.

If c/ring is bad then it's only a little bad and only in isolation since it will gain us meta. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is standard for us if we're playing high vs a good aggro reg since we'll be c/ring a lot of flops when we call his 3bet. That's leads to question how often villain 3bets. Some 20/18s at 1/2 are not going to 3bet light, but even then if he thinks we're bluffy then c/ring is better.

Having said that, I'm not sure if c/ring is good since I have very little experience playing 3bet pots light and creatively, but it's definitely not bad if we're gonna us our image later. And one thing I seem to be learning about really good players is that when they have decent enough equity they are betting and raising.

perfect

I like your line a lot.

ummm, i dont really like it, i think you play it too passive, you play it to win the least.

1st thing I woulda raised more preflop, when the 3bet is only to 20, it makes it difficult to check/jam this flop, which is basically what you should be doing like 90% of the time if you are calling preflop. When the 3bet is to like 25-28, pot then becomes 50+ and villain c-bets like 40 then u checkjam, the times he folds you win a lot more, and the times he calls you're like never in bad shape.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshall28

it makes it difficult to check/jam this flop, which is basically what you should be doing like 90% of the time if you are calling preflop.

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Can you expound on this? Are you saying that when we're getting 3bet light we should check/jam 90% of flops when we call the 3bets? How do you decide you're getting 3bet light enough for this? How do you decide which flops/hands to do it with? Why do this instead of 4betting?

marshall you want to check/jam everything it seems like

well if you know you're getting it in against like smaller pairs and AK-AT then 4betting is fine, actually the more i consider it's blind vs blind i like a 4bet, but u gotta make sure villain understands blind vs blind dynamics for this to be profitable, if he doesnt, youre just turning your hand into a bluff.

ummm, the reason i advocate the check/jam flop after calling 3bets is basically because i 3bet super light, and i know this tactic to work better against me than anything else. tightening up opening ranges and loosening up 4betting ranges is another option for handling a light 3bettor, but TT is one of those tweener hands that doesn't really run so well all in preflop against 3betting ranges.

like, if you think about it, what is a light 3bettor trying to do? he's trying to make u passive and submit to him, to play his game and let him tool u. when u check/jam on him on the flop, youre taking his tool (aggression/taking the lead) away from him and forcing him to make tough decisions post flop.

look at this board, think about holdings villain can have and realize that depending on how light he was 3betting how calling or folding when u jam w/ a hand that has this much equity is probably going to be a mistake.

wasnt saying 90% of flops, just ones where you have a good amount of equity. otherwise why are you calling preflop? don't you want to put your opponent in a tough spot? besides ... if you wait til the turn to make a move your equity goes way way down.

"villain in this hand is 20/18/3ish. he seems to think i bluff a lot"

Solution: Let's turn our hand into a bluff and check jam! Yaya!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonnyCosMo

"villain in this hand is 20/18/3ish. he seems to think i bluff a lot"

Solution: Let's turn our hand into a bluff and check jam! Yaya!

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omg you are a genius

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonnyCosMo

"villain in this hand is 20/18/3ish. he seems to think i bluff a lot"

Solution: Let's turn our hand into a bluff and check jam! Yaya!

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its irrelevant since villain can have too wide a range and we can actually be quite far ahead of it ... lol @ playing this hand for value on this flop by check/calling the whole way. expect to lose the most and win the least.

if check/jam is so bad, what's your solution? lol ...

vs player he described this line is fine. 4 bet/call preflop is more correct if you guys have had a more violent history vs each other.

Reasons c/r in this spot are bad: Villan thinks you bluff a lot. Translation: Your fold equity vs hands that have you beat on this type of flop is very minimal. On the flip side, if you happen to turn or river your straight, it's not like a K or a 9 will kill your action vs someone like this since they think you bluff a lot. Most likely they will still hero call a bet with same/similar range that they will call the c/r with.

Poker so ez?

You can't check-call turn btw. But since he check behind the turn, river is a def reeval and possibly a call depending on a whole slew of things that I dont feel like going into but you get the picture. GO WITH UR GUT!

thx for putting me in my place jonny, as u so often do.

this is part of the reason i always argue so strongly for my points....so that i learn something when im wrong.... for u guys who think i think i know it all.