I cannot believe I'm posting this hand 400NL

Any of you who have played with me/seen my advice know that I hate folding. Villain is 7/2.5 over 500 hands. I got my stack playing solid/tight. So do you make the fold?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($394)
UTG+1 ($62.15)
MP1 ($252.30)
MP2 ($399.40)
CO ($444.70)
Button ($793)
Hero ($620)
BB ($162.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
4 folds, CO raises to $16, 1 fold, Hero calls $14, 1 fold.

Flop: ($36) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $28, CO calls $28.

Turn: ($92) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $68, CO raises to $228, Hero

You are playing against the Rock of Gibraltar

I really don't like bottom set in that situation

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

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Originally Posted by XTR1000

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

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What is his range?

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Originally Posted by Deanglow

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Originally Posted by XTR1000

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

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What is his range?

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We are screwed vs his range, unless he play AK or AA like this. Which I think Villain wouldn't. What's the aggression factor?

If aggression is reasonably low, range is QQ/KK/AA/AK, in that order of likelihood IMO

If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?

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Originally Posted by Deanglow

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Originally Posted by XTR1000

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

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What is his range?

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AhKh/AA/QQ

i've raise preflop with suited hearts and JT before,... add that to anyones range

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Originally Posted by d0zer

If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?

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I think my implied odds are there. I don't think he is a very good nit and will stack off easily on a 10-high board.

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i've raise preflop with suited hearts and JT before,... add that to anyones range

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I'm almost 100% he folds J10 PF. I'm also pretty sure he just calls the turn with AhKh

Slowplayed QQQ getting anxious as the board becomes more drawy.

I mean, wouldn't an overpair raise flop?

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Originally Posted by Deanglow

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Originally Posted by d0zer

If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?

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I think my implied odds are there. I don't think he is a very good nit and will stack off easily on a 10-high board.

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Should the rule of 15 be modified to like the rule of 30 or something if you only feel ok stacking off on a 10 high board after hitting yer set?

Not criticizing -- I know you've got far more experience on these higher levels than I. My 200NL experience consists of 7 hands...my 7th I stacked off when calling a PFR with 88 OOP, AJ8 board, villain had Jacks.

...so I'm kind of curious about bottom set at the higher limits vs the nit regs. To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?

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Originally Posted by d0zer

To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?

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This is way off. You will understand as you get better and move up in levels. Donks are everywhere and nits are kind of rare.

I lay down all kinds of good hands for a guy like him

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Originally Posted by d0zer

Should the rule of 15 be modified to like the rule of 30 or something if you only feel ok stacking off on a 10 high board after hitting yer set?

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I use the 10x rule @ 200nl and it works for me

Might his PF range look like 99+,AQs+,KQs,AKo, which would be about 4.5 percent of hands considering everyone folds to him in the cutoff? I think we may be narrowing his range too much even though he is a NIT among NITs.

for my own benefit I would like to establish a preflop range and then work toward what hands would get to the turn and could then make that raise.

All-in.

528 games 0.005 secs 105,600 games/sec

Board: 3h Qh 9d Kc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.864% 48.86% 00.00% 258 0.00 { 3c3d }
Hand 1: 51.136% 51.14% 00.00% 270 0.00 { QQ+ }

wtf guys AA doesnt fit the action AT ALL vs him. his range in order of likelihood is KK-QQ-99-KQ-rare JTs or bluff
fold

If AA (and AK) are heavily discounted, then I can see a fold.

Results: I thought about it for a good five seconds and just "meh whatever it's a cooler and shoved." I was very surprised when he called with AA. I have another hand for your viewing pleasure.

Villain is 4/1 over 200 hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($198.20)
UTG ($514.80)
MP1 ($240)
MP2 ($525)
CO ($554.40)
Button ($80)
Hero ($384.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
1 fold, MP1 calls $4, MP2 raises to $20, 2 folds, Hero calls $18, 1 fold, MP1 calls $16.

Flop: ($64) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: ($64) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $44, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $88

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

wtf guys AA doesnt fit the action AT ALL vs him.

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AA is the nuts. LDO

On a more serious note, I think there is something said for trying to read too much into post-flop play given just pre-flop numbers. Particularly since it's aggro online poker.

The second hand looks like a fold I've made a couple times.

edit: Consider a c/c on the turn.

yeah thats surprising but i think it just shows that he was a player with very low bet literacy as raising that turn with AA is definitely a bluff and the raise functions poorly as both a bluff and a value/protection bet

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

yeah thats surprising but i think it just shows that he was a player with very low bet literacy as raising that turn with AA is definitely a bluff and the raise functions poorly as both a bluff and a value/protection bet

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I think his line is pretty reasonable given the flop donk on a board with a little action. He wants to induce a follow-through bet, then stuff draws. The King was a pretty bad card, maybe bad enough to call again but he stuck to his game-plan anyway.

Besides, isn't c/c, bet all the rage with sets these days?

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Originally Posted by Deanglow

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Originally Posted by d0zer

To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?

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This is way off. You will understand as you get better and move up in levels. Donks are everywhere and nits are kind of rare.

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Good to hear. Intuitively I know this, just the few times I've played outside my BR at 100/200NL I've run into some brutal negative variance / tight tables and it's skewed my perspective of how tough these limits are :x

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Originally Posted by Fnord

Besides, isn't c/c, bet all the rage with sets these days?

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on dry boards maybe, but here i would have checkraised bottom set 100% of the time