Passive players at 600NL? AND WE'RE DEEP GAH

villain is running like 26/6/.4 after 30 hands. And he like hasn't made a bet or raise postflop (pretty few hands i know).

Anyways whats your line from the flop on.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($478.65)
MP ($612)
Hero ($1197)
Button ($340.05)
SB ($165.25)
BB ($971.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif. UTG posts a blind of $6.
1 fold, Hero raises to $21, 1 fold, BB calls $18, 1 fold.

Flop: ($48) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $40, BB raises to $150, Hero

folding seems weak but maybe not bad.

if you call i think you kind of have to go with it if the draws miss.

and i dont really like raising.

i call. we are in position, def. no reraise, but if any K, J, or T comes on the turn im outta there. also a diamond, unless its the :9d:, in which case i ship it in ldo.

yeah this is pretty gross. actually, i might just fold, because sooo many cards are bad for us and we could easily be behind.

I don't think this player raises a fd.

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Originally Posted by meeloche

I don't think this player raises a fd.

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im just saying, you cant rule it out. even a really passive player i think raises T9d.

i know there's been quite a bit of talk against "calling and looking for a safe turn" but I think this is a great spot to just call and re-evaluate the turn

that being said I don t think folding is giving away much here vs this player

I think folding is the best play here. Even if he has a big draw you aren't in good shape.

fold

i think since we are up against a super passive player, there is a decent chance he is checking turn no matter what, or making a small bet.

so yeah i agree with genitruc, but i definitely dont think its a mistake to fold. i think either is fine, as long as were not stupid and felt a bad turn.

I just fold here.

muck it.

what if we have QJ?

Everyone else says fold, so I'm gonna rock the boat. Tell me why I'm wrong.

4 outs, what the hell does he call that big a bet with?

AQ? AA, KK, AKs, T9s QJs All make sense for the raise...

You're ahead of all those hands, but one. I guess the sets are all possible too. But comeon passive or not, QQ and JJ are gettin' re-raised. So 99 maybe? You're ahead a lot of times with a thin-but tangible re-draw. Go nuklear, let this passive wuss know he's crushed...

This screams of AQ/KK/AA to a low-stakes noob like myself. Is it really that easy a fold?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by biondino

This screams of AQ/KK/AA to a low-stakes noob like myself. Is it really that easy a fold?

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I doubt he plays AA/KK like this on this board. Also. how is AK possible unless it is AKdd??

I think a reasonable range is JJ/QT/9Tdd/KTdd. WIth his passive tendancies post flop. I figure JJ/KTdd or KT are far more likely.

Call flop and probably fold to further action. Don't change your play drastically because of some stats based on only 30 hands!

i think this is a tough spot and it sso close it probaly doesnt matter what you do

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelion

what if we have QJ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pelion

what if we have QJ?

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i mean i dont think it changes the situation that much. top 2 vs. top and bottom on the flop. i just really doubt he is risking a c/r on that kind of a board with top 2. half the deck are scare cards. A, K, T, 9 and any diamond.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Everyone else says fold, so I'm gonna rock the boat. Tell me why I'm wrong.

4 outs, what the hell does he call that big a bet with?

AQ? AA, KK, AKs, T9s QJs All make sense for the raise...

You're ahead of all those hands, but one. I guess the sets are all possible too. But comeon passive or not, QQ and JJ are gettin' re-raised. So 99 maybe? You're ahead a lot of times with a thin-but tangible re-draw. Go nuklear, let this passive wuss know he's crushed...

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4 outs is like less then 15% to hit first of all. and how come you threw AA/KK into your 'range' but not QQ/JJ. also a big concern is there are soooooo many bad cards for us. so its like, vs. an aggro player this is would be an easier felt, but even then we might not like it.

and also i didnt realize that this was over 30 hands. that means jack. ive had an AF of 0 a lot over 50 hands, and my overall AF is like 4 or something.

Well, there are only 3 combos of JJ and one of QQ vs 6 each of AA and KK. Plus AA and KK are more likely to slowplay pre-flop - possibly meaningless but possibly not.

His flop raise screams of protection to me, which in turn scream of TP or overpair as well as KT, which is the most likely hand you're behind. I haven't got pokerstove at work but ultimately/instinctively I think gabe is probably right.

i think you have it backwards bio, if he wanted to protect he would likely lead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

i think this is a tough spot and it sso close it probaly doesnt matter what you do

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i should have stated that i think its close when i said fold but yeah, i think your only other option is to call once and fold to a big bet even if the turn is a blank. i dont like stacking off here very much at all

see... I felt like it was close.

it is close but u have to consider three things that you can use to your advantage.
1. youre deep against a scared villain
2. villain is passive so highly unlikely he's raising FD's
3. you have position and will be able to determine where villain is at by calling and re-eval on the turn fairly easy.

The fact that you're deep should make you want to continue as there are going to be turn cards taht you will be able to turn your hand into a bluff on as well as turn cards that you will be able to value town him on. I say let's make the fish feel the pressure of playing deep.

I'm thinking that even if the turn is Td I'm still not gonna feel comfortable single barreling a bluff, and I'm definitely not comfortable doubling since a lot of scared straights will still call down.

just grab your nuts and give it a try. not gonna learn how to handle these situations if you never try, right?

i think folding is probably optimal but id call cause of sample size