TPTK, 3bet bVb facing flop shove

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03-05-2008, 08:22 PM
mixchange

TPTK, 3bet bVb facing flop shove

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($35.10)
Button ($114.20)
SB ($100)
Hero ($131.95)
UTG ($161.65)
MP ($75.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
4 folds, SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $14, SB calls $10.

Flop: ($28) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB raises to $86, Hero???

VIllain 20/11 ish and hadn't been making big moves so far. I'd say he is a bit nitty.

It seems more valuable to shove here with air or AK than with KQ or a set... but I also could see KK/AA here a lot.

Who calls?
03-05-2008, 08:24 PM
thizzSantaCruz

This is tough but I probably get it in. Agression numbers would be nice. If anything you have a backdoor flush draw. Bet more on the flop also.
03-05-2008, 08:51 PM
bode

[x] BvB
[x] 3bet pot
[x] TPTK

= get it in. and your flop bet looks soooo weak here. is 1/2 pot standard cbet for you in a 3bet pot?
03-05-2008, 09:02 PM
mixchange

no, I just didn't think he'd have anything. i wanted a call by a mid pair, I didn't expect a shove.

my image is pretty nitty 16/13 so it seems tough for himt o shove here without a good hand
03-05-2008, 09:09 PM
Dislexsik

Meh, i dont see him playing hands that beat u this fast.And its a 3bet pot and u have tptk.Im not laying this down.
03-05-2008, 09:29 PM
will641

i think i call cause he could easily be doing this with weaker Q, possibly a sd, or pocket pair. but on a side not, why did you bet half pot on the flop? i know its a fairly dry board but jesus.
03-05-2008, 09:35 PM
mixchange

I did underbet what I'd usually bet, sometimes my betsizing is awkward because i'm playing too many 6 max tables
03-05-2008, 09:37 PM
will641

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I did underbet what I'd usually bet, sometimes my betsizing is awkward because i'm playing too many 6 max tables

thats probably a sign you shouldnt play so many tables. how many are you playing?
03-05-2008, 09:49 PM
mixchange

anywhere from 6-10
03-05-2008, 09:49 PM
meeloche

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I did underbet what I'd usually bet, sometimes my betsizing is awkward because i'm playing too many 6 max tables

Get a bet pot script this will no longer be a problem.

As for the hand I'm definitely calling.
03-05-2008, 09:50 PM
mixchange

you can make them default to less right? say 2/3 pot
03-05-2008, 09:59 PM
Marshall28

since ive started posting on these forums i must say this like at least once a day:

general rule of thumb - top pair is the nuts in a 3bet pot. DO NOT FOLD IT.
03-05-2008, 11:00 PM
meeloche

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

you can make them default to less right? say 2/3 pot

You can make it default to whatever fraction of pot you want/street.
03-06-2008, 01:02 AM
sauce123

mix-

all the ppl who r saying "lol its tptk in a 3bet pot awww in" r giving u good advice with poor reasoning.

i think hes going to show up with AA/kk here a lot, as ur gut probably told u, its suuch a dry board and the only conceivable drawing hand he can have is the cpl combos of JTs which isnt much as well as pure bluffs which r just as unlikely. ur problem here is that u have a hand at almost the top of ur range and to fold this given the amnt of money in the pot u need to know a few things FOR SURE:

1. if hes cring hands which r wa/wb here like TT JJ KQ QJ
2. if he slowplays AA KK preflop
3. if hes capable of bluffing on dry boards

if u dont know the answer to all of three of these questions ur default absolutely has to be to stackoff and chalk it up to a cooler if ur beat--- but this is by no means an impossible fold, and u can adjust ur play vs this villain in later hands.

this is why having such a giant player pool is so difficult and why HUD is just too cool.
03-06-2008, 01:20 AM
will641

great reply sauce.
03-06-2008, 05:21 AM
mixchange

Thanks Sauce, that's the answer I needed. My mistake is if I'm not sure of those 3, I fold instead of call. I'll try to grow a pair more in these spots... It's funny, since I was up a bunch it was easier to laydown, if I was stuck I'd call. I know it shouldn't be a factor, just being honest.

He pulled a similar line later in bvb, but pairless and jack high I couldn't do anything, so I think calling the shove was correct. I play too scared money in big pots :(
03-06-2008, 06:49 AM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeloche

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I did underbet what I'd usually bet, sometimes my betsizing is awkward because i'm playing too many 6 max tables

Get a bet pot script this will no longer be a problem.

totally agree. bet pot script is a must.
03-06-2008, 01:16 PM
mixchange

I'll set one up at home. I'd imagine $7pf is more ideal than $8 because of the amount of blind squeezing I do, too.

Only thing that sucks is sometimes I have to play on a machine I don't have control over, which means no acehud... I think I could put the AHK script on though
03-06-2008, 02:19 PM
nutsinho

sauce obv nailed it
03-06-2008, 02:43 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeloche

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

I did underbet what I'd usually bet, sometimes my betsizing is awkward because i'm playing too many 6 max tables

Get a bet pot script this will no longer be a problem.

As for the hand I'm definitely calling.

i'm all in favor of getting the BPS, it's a huge help, but i vehomently disagree with using it in situations like this. these are spots (3-bet pots are especially relevant here) where you need to manipulate the size of the pot well, and auto betting 2/3 or 3/4 just sucks, imo.

about the hand, in the past i'd get it in everytime here brainlessly, but it is possible to get away if the situation warrants it. sauce made a great post about that.