2 huge shoves...wuddyado?

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03-25-2008, 11:40 PM
thizzSantaCruz

2 huge shoves...wuddyado?

Villain in this first hand is 41/28/2 over 91 hands. He has started 3 betting me a ton lately. At one point he had 3 bet 3 hands in a row before I 4bet pushed over him with 88. He only had half a stack and called with A4. He sucked out. About 20 hands later this hand happens.

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25.35)
UTG+1 ($50.00)
CO ($51.90)
Hero ($50.70)
SB ($46.55)
BB ($50.00)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is BTN :9h: :th:
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, SB calls $1.5, 1 fold

Flop: :2s: :2c: :4c: ($4, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.8, SB calls $2.8

Turn: :9d: ($9.6, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB goes all-in $42, $36 to Hero ($40.15)?

This guy is a complete unkown. Call here?

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero ($61.75)
UTG+1 ($26.10)
CO ($61.65)
BTN ($97.45)
SB ($50.00)
BB ($45.50)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is UTG :qs: :as:
Hero raises to $1.75, UTG+1 calls $1.75, CO calls $1.75, 2 folds, BB goes all-in $45.5, $43.75 to Hero ($60)?
03-26-2008, 04:59 AM
wufwugy

1. you described a poor player who does stupid shit regluarly. call

2. do you wanna get it in vs AK?
03-26-2008, 05:02 AM
Roel

Think i fold both, second one seems waaay fishy though.
03-26-2008, 05:12 AM
wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roel

Think i fold both, second one seems waaay fishy though.

first hand he is repping a suuuuuuuuuper polarized range gravitating majorly towards the low end, and that makes our hand a snap pump.

granted he doesn't think exactly how we'd expect, but what can we do?
03-26-2008, 05:13 AM
minSim

I fold both pretty quickly. 1 is closer than 2.
03-26-2008, 07:08 AM
BigPapi

hand 1, why would he want to raise this big if he has a 2 (to protect against the fd which is not even 20% to hit?) and furthermore, it's a checkraise which shows his strength even more. with a 2 in my hand I want a call here. I think we see a 4 or another low pair here a lot. i call this

hand 2 i fold
03-26-2008, 07:42 AM
lolzzz_321

Have you gotten to a turn in a prior hand with first villian?
03-26-2008, 10:02 AM
bode

hand 1 is close but i think its a call

hand 2 is the easiest insta fold ever
03-26-2008, 12:36 PM
thizzSantaCruz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triptanes

Have you gotten to a turn in a prior hand with first villian?

No, not yet. Our hands had only gotten to the flop and he had c/folded to my c-bets if he wasn't taking pots away from me with a 3 bet pre flop.
03-26-2008, 12:56 PM
nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

hand 1 is close but i think its a call

hand 2 is the easiest insta fold ever

bode wins
03-26-2008, 01:02 PM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

hand 1 is close but i think its a call

hand 2 is the easiest insta fold ever

bode wins

yah! what do i get?
03-26-2008, 01:16 PM
Deanglow

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

hand 1 is close but i think its a call

hand 2 is the easiest insta fold ever

bode wins

nutsinho wins.
03-26-2008, 05:44 PM
nutsinho

one point
03-26-2008, 07:29 PM
wufwugy

hand one is not close at all

villain has shown us that he is very bluffy and has no issues with playing for all his chips with the worst of it. he 3bets a ton so cannot be oft put on TT+ when he flats. he is repping a couple very hard to make hands, but is also terrible and bluffy so this is such an easy call. only type of hand im kinda really scared of is K9 or something. he can totally show up with that, but also with K8 im sure.

generally speaking, putting somebody on trip deuces is not that good an idea. not a whole lot of deuces are getting played, even by this guy. putting him on treys on this flop is also not that great an idea.

if we're afraid of getting raised on turn and will fold then checking turn is waaaaay better. we should realize that this guy is bluffy and bad, and bet turn only when comfortable felting.
03-26-2008, 10:08 PM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

he 3bets a ton so cannot be oft put on TT+ when he flats.

Not necessarily true. This guy looks bad enough that he could easily play backwards. He could be 3betting like 77-JJ or something but still feels the need to get trappy with QQ+. I see this quite a lot from really bad players even.

Also preflop in hand 1 seems really bad given the read. Your opening range should be the same as your 4betting range here imo. (and 9Ts is only just better than a coinflip Vs 2 random cards).
03-26-2008, 11:45 PM
wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

he 3bets a ton so cannot be oft put on TT+ when he flats.

Not necessarily true. This guy looks bad enough that he could easily play backwards. He could be 3betting like 77-JJ or something but still feels the need to get trappy with QQ+. I see this quite a lot from really bad players even.

Also preflop in hand 1 seems really bad given the read. Your opening range should be the same as your 4betting range here imo. (and 9Ts is only just better than a coinflip Vs 2 random cards).

exactly why the call is so easy. your point is good, but only in isolation. once we begin applying unusual and stupid/tricky thought processes to villain like that then we should be applying other ones as well. ones that we beat on the turn. it's a bad idea to give creedence to speculations about range variations like this without more info though. fortunately, other facets neutralize any mystery there.

what it boils down to is that his play makes no sense, he's bad, he's bluffy, that board is hard to have anything on, yet one bad players are good at getting tricky on. snap ship. granted in game ill hafta think about for like fifteen seconds before i realize how easy a call it is.
03-26-2008, 11:49 PM
wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Also preflop in hand 1 seems really bad given the read. Your opening range should be the same as your 4betting range here imo. (and 9Ts is only just better than a coinflip Vs 2 random cards).

depends how we wanna play imo. if we can steal enough then raising and calling a 3bet is fine (assuming we know how to play in 3bet pots). if he's 3betting way more than a ton and we dont know what he'll do facing a 4bet then we should just limp/call.

however, leaving table > limp/calling. in fact we should have left table a while back unless we know where our edge is at.