200NL 300BB deep flopped flush

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04-08-2008, 11:13 PM
Marshall28

200NL 300BB deep flopped flush

Villain 28/20/1.7 ... no history between him and I, not even sure what he thinks of me, I've been playing well and pretty much crushing the table so I have a good image, but probably a little spewy. I called flop cuz I thought I wouldn't be getting it in vs worse hands often enough and I'd be scaring away hands that I could get value from on later streets. Plus if I do get the money in on the flop and am ahead, I'm not gonna be that far ahead.

On turn I thought raising was too transparent and he folds everything but a flush, though I maybe should have to protect my hand? Not quite sure. lyric says raise but I dunno.

Didn't have much of time bank on river but didn't want to jam and miss value, but thought I wanted to give him enough rooom to re-shove, i think this was a bad idea after the fact. I don't like the way I played this hand, any feedback?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($228.75)
UTG ($207.35)
MP ($262)
Hero ($739.25)
Button ($228.95)
SB ($631)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
UTG raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero calls $6, 1 fold, SB raises to $24, 1 fold, UTG calls $18, Hero calls $18.

Flop: ($74) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets $58, UTG folds, Hero calls $58.

Turn: ($190) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets $114, Hero calls $114.

River: ($418) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $185, SB calls $185.

Final Pot: $788
04-08-2008, 11:27 PM
Genitruc

wow this won't be particularly informative but i'd raise just about everywhere until i could go ALL IN

2 outs even when behind baby
04-08-2008, 11:35 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Raising the flop is essential especially since you have to play the turn like that?

Come on you think he's folding AA-KK or AQ on the flop?
04-08-2008, 11:40 PM
Marshall28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Raising the flop is essential especially since you have to play the turn like that?

Come on you think he's folding AA-KK or AQ on the flop?

300bb deep oop ... W/out a big spade. yeah.
04-08-2008, 11:53 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Raising the flop is essential especially since you have to play the turn like that?

Come on you think he's folding AA-KK or AQ on the flop?

300bb deep oop ... W/out a big spade. yeah.

lol do you not bluff anymore? My experience is unless you really want to blow him off his hand with a big raise size he's not gonna fold those hands to a flop raise.
04-09-2008, 12:09 AM
nutsinho

lol you bet less than half pot on river. i personally think thats an incredibly bad bet size to work into your game in these spots.
04-09-2008, 12:14 AM
Marshall28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

lol you bet less than half pot on river. i personally think thats an incredibly bad bet size to work into your game in these spots.

i obv botched the hand really badly ... thats why i am posting it. i dont post hands very often, cuz i usually can figure out the mistakes i made by thinking it through. i am starting to think a jam on the river, as played is best. though raising the flop was probably >>>>>>>>>>> calling.

the other problem is i shouldnt be sitting 300bb deep if i am playing underrolled. in which case i probably dont hesitate to raise the flop. : [
04-09-2008, 05:42 AM
wufwugy

thing about raising flop is that our hand is quite vulnerable. it doenst look like it but it really is. we're happy to get a lot of money in now, but like 1/3 of the turns we hate. that is almost always reason enough to raise
04-09-2008, 10:19 AM
Deanglow

Think of it like this: Raising the flop is almost never bad but just calling can be considered so. On the river I'm allin.
04-09-2008, 10:38 AM
griffey24

I can't imagine not raising this flop, especially in position. Your raising range on this flop should be really really wide cause this flop is often horrible for him, and he's OOP and he can't stand the heat.

I'm raising such nonsense on this board, that 67s here is for sure the top top of my range, so I'd have to raise that too.

As played, your hand looks so weak (and potentially drawy) that you can for sure get away with making a potsize bet on this river and get looked up by a ton of hands. He'd expect you to check behind here with almost all your marginal hands (so your entire range that he puts you on, even two pair checking behind) so betting here will look very bluffy.
04-09-2008, 10:51 AM
pocketfours

One of those hands it HURTS to even look at. I mean honestly WTF how dare you play like this?

I'm so tilted by this hand that I can't play for hours now...
04-09-2008, 11:49 AM
Deanglow

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

One of those hands it HURTS to even look at. I mean honestly WTF how dare you play like this?

I'm so tilted by this hand that I can't play for hours now...

This is how I feel when I see every hand in the FR forum.
Raise the flop.
04-09-2008, 12:24 PM
Galapogos

^^^ That action makes no sense.

Agree with what everyone has said about the first hand. But I was wondering why you don't think you're very far ahead when you're ahead? You're like a 70% favorite against the tightest not-ahead-of-you-range.

Edit: Curse your ninja edit!
04-09-2008, 01:59 PM
griffey24

Re: 200NL 300BB deep flopped flush

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

Didn't have much of time bank on river but didn't want to jam and miss value, but thought I wanted to give him enough rooom to re-shove,

I guess i'm confused at this hand. You're willing to call a re-shove by villain here. So playing this hand slow the whole way, was not cause you thought you could be behind, but instead cause you didn't wanna blow him out and get a fold?

Don't worry about him folding. If he folds too much, then just exploit him by bluffing him more with air. You have to fill this up on the flop, especially since there are so many scare cards for you AND he's not going anywhere wtih AsK,AKs,AAs,KKs.
04-09-2008, 02:11 PM
Marshall28

griffey, i think i outlined my thought process at the top of the post.

go back and re-read that, it makes sense, doesnt mean i played the hand well, just means based on the type of player i think he is, hes not ever checking the river when hes ahead.
04-09-2008, 02:13 PM
Marshall28

im not going to balance my range vs players i dont assume to be good.
04-09-2008, 02:14 PM
Marshall28

obv i shoulda jammed the river, its dumb to think he fires 2 barrels as a bluff.
04-09-2008, 03:55 PM
DaNutsInYoEye

lol
04-09-2008, 04:43 PM
gabe

i would expect a fish to play a flush like this, dont want to scare him off amirite?
04-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Marshall28

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

i would expect a fish to play a flush like this, dont want to scare him off amirite?

its possible, but theres for sure one thing i would expect, and that's for a fish to shove a straight draw with no fold equity.

POKERSTARS GAME #14100312878: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2007/12/25 - 22:19:43 (ET)
Table 'Marceline II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: z8eldred ($985.40 in chips)
Seat 2: schoolato ($1425.90 in chips)
Seat 3: Marshall28 ($664 in chips)
Seat 4: johnnykran ($594 in chips)
Seat 5: gp333 ($1585.40 in chips)
Seat 6: gusse10 ($1085.75 in chips)
johnnykran: posts small blind $3
gp333: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Marshall28 [Qs Qc]
gusse10: folds
z8eldred: folds
schoolato: folds
Marshall28: raises $12 to $18
johnnykran: folds
gp333: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [9h 4d 5s]
gp333: checks
Marshall28: bets $24
gp333: raises $30 to $54
Marshall28: raises $108 to $162
gp333: raises $1405.40 to $1567.40 and is all-in
Marshall28: calls $484 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [9h 4d 5s] [Jh]
*** RIVER *** [9h 4d 5s Jh] [9d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gp333: shows [6d 7d] (a pair of Nines)
Marshall28: shows [Qs Qc] (two pair, Queens and Nines)
Marshall28 collected $1328 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1331 | Rake $3
Board [9h 4d 5s Jh 9d]
Seat 1: z8eldred folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: schoolato folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Marshall28 (button) showed [Qs Qc] and won ($1328) with two pair, Queens and Nines
Seat 4: johnnykran (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: gp333 (big blind) showed [6d 7d] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 6: gusse10 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

edit: BURNED!!
04-09-2008, 06:06 PM
lolzzz_321

cmon, it was christmas!
04-09-2008, 07:10 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

a straight draw with no fold equity.

He had a backdoor flush draw too!
04-09-2008, 07:16 PM
gabe

marshall i make so much money from people playing QQ like that, its sick
04-09-2008, 07:27 PM
Marshall28

so u are basically saying u just get it in bad constantly and suck out a lot. nice.
04-09-2008, 07:28 PM
Marshall28

and btw .. .w/ your image .... i play 98 the same way : /
04-09-2008, 08:41 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

its possible, but theres for sure one thing i would expect, and that's for a fish to shove a straight draw with no fold equity.

HAHA I'm sure gabe knew the SUITS of your two queens.
04-09-2008, 08:54 PM
pankfish

Damn I hate not being on a bandwagon. Yer ghey marshall.
04-09-2008, 09:13 PM
Marshall28

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

its possible, but theres for sure one thing i would expect, and that's for a fish to shove a straight draw with no fold equity.

HAHA I'm sure gabe knew the SUITS of your two queens.

always me against the world. : )
04-09-2008, 09:26 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

and btw .. .w/ your image .... i play 98 the same way : /

man i must be so easy to beat!!! feel free to sit in any of the games i play
04-09-2008, 09:29 PM
Marshall28

gabe, im gonna lay down this gauntlet ... since im so confident vs u ... 4 tables HU 100/200 blinds. accept?
04-09-2008, 09:41 PM
pankfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

gabe, im gonna lay down this gauntlet ... since im so confident vs u ... 4 tables HU 100/200 blinds. accept?

Sick, I wanna rail.
04-09-2008, 09:59 PM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall28.liquidpoker.net

February 16th marshall28 blog entry:

Anyways, so now basically what I'm gonna do is play a game I call the 8 table 8 buy in rule game. Basically, what I'll do is sit down with my entire roll (400$) spread across the 8 tables

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

gabe, im gonna lay down this gauntlet ... since im so confident vs u ... 4 tables HU 100/200 blinds. accept?

How exactly are you planning to post the blinds?
04-09-2008, 10:05 PM
pankfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall28.liquidpoker.net

February 16th marshall28 blog entry:

Anyways, so now basically what I'm gonna do is play a game I call the 8 table 8 buy in rule game. Basically, what I'll do is sit down with my entire roll (400$) spread across the 8 tables

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall28

gabe, im gonna lay down this gauntlet ... since im so confident vs u ... 4 tables HU 100/200 blinds. accept?

How exactly are you planning to post the blinds?

coaching money, duh.
04-09-2008, 11:39 PM
gabe

lol yea, lets play. i wont play higher than 40k nl though
04-09-2008, 11:47 PM
bode

please do this
04-10-2008, 12:17 AM
wufwugy

im sure gabe will back out if i stake marshall since he'd be afraid that i'll be playing instead of marshall

that happened like twice before
04-10-2008, 07:57 AM
bode

was marshall saying 100/200 or 100nl or 200nl? hes playing 200nl on a short bankroll so theres no way he has 20k to put down on a table. maybe he will pawn his porsche?
04-10-2008, 10:29 AM
pocketfours

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

was marshall saying 100/200 or 100nl or 200nl? hes playing 200nl on a short bankroll so theres no way he has 20k to put down on a table. maybe he will pawn his porsche?

He's FOS ofc... I don't know why Mods tolerate this kind of crap. Like it's not even funny :?
04-10-2008, 11:05 AM
IowaSkinsFan

lol @ this thread.

Raise flop, you have a ridiculously bad image lets use it.
04-10-2008, 01:32 PM
gabe

marshall i will also play you HU at 2/4nl if u want just for fun
04-10-2008, 02:11 PM
will641

gabe you are fucking hilarious. by far the funniest thread outside of the commune.

marshall by posting that QQ hand, its almost like the classic fish statement, "you arent better than me, who has more chips?"
04-10-2008, 03:04 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

BINGO!!!
04-10-2008, 07:54 PM
Marshall28

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

gabe you are fucking hilarious. by far the funniest thread outside of the commune.

marshall by posting that QQ hand, its almost like the classic fish statement, "you arent better than me, who has more chips?"

jesus christ ... does nobody else get this? ... its like it must go over 98% of people's heads. (even half of you know i have a problem of thinking too deeply in poker) .. i do the same thing here ...
04-10-2008, 08:06 PM
Renton

seems like raise flop or shove river as played. I think calling flop to raise turn is probably worst.
04-10-2008, 09:50 PM
Jack Sawyer

c'mon guys, are we all grownups here or what?
04-10-2008, 09:53 PM
Jack Sawyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

seems like raise flop or shove river as played. I think calling flop to raise turn is probably worst.

+1
04-10-2008, 10:27 PM
Marshall28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

c'mon guys, are we all grownups here or what?

cmon guys does no one have a sense of humor here or what?
04-10-2008, 11:05 PM
wufwugy

lookit my boy marshall

hes all growns up and growns up and growns up baby