Got my flush but now I want to fold it

Texas Hold'em $1-$2 NL (real money), hand #P4-65548599-1025
Table Quebec, 16 Apr 2008 6:12 PM ET

Seat 4: korssycho ($246.40 in chips)
Seat 6: touareg17 ($134.65 in chips)
Seat 7: ciplider ($124.15 in chips)
Seat 8: Galapogos [ 7:s:,6:s: ] ($125.60 in chips)

Antes/Blinds
ciplider posts blind ($0.50), Galapogos posts blind ($1).

Pre-Flop
korssycho folds, touareg17 calls $1, ciplider folds, Galapogos checks.

Flop [board cards 3:s:,2:c:,5:s: ]
Galapogos bets $2, touareg17 bets $4, Galapogos bets $13, touareg17 calls $11.

Turn [board cards 3:s:,2:c:,5:s:,T:h: ]
Galapogos bets $20, touareg17 calls $20.

River [board cards 3:s:,2:c:,5:s:,T:h:,J:s: ]
Galapogos bets $30, touareg17 bets $98.65 and is all-in, Galapogos...

I would call but I'm a station. Any reads on this guy?

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Originally Posted by silu73

I would call but I'm a station. Any reads on this guy?

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Whoops, forgot that part.

Had no stats up yet. He's donkish, but not a spazz. That's about it.

Yeah you can't fold.

I like a bigger fop 3 bet actually like 20ish.

With a donkish read on the guy I can't find a fold here.

dont fold.

why does it say 1-2 nl on the top of your post?

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Originally Posted by kapilalink

I don't like the min bet on the flop

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Its actually 100nl so it was a "double minbet" :wink:

if im trying to make a flush, im not about to fold it after i do.

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Originally Posted by kapilalink

why does it say 1-2 nl on the top of your post?

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Ongame network lists tables with small bet/big bet, which in 100NL is $1/$2.

These posts are so level 0 it's amazing. Everybody's just 'call because we have a flushy'. There is no way an average player would take this line without a flush and he probably doesn't have the one you beat. I think this is a fold and it's not even close.

What hand does he like on the flop/turn and love on the river? I think he raises the turn with a straight like always.

Next hand.

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

These posts are so level 0 it's amazing. Everybody's just 'call because we have a flushy'. There is no way an average player would take this line without a flush and he probably doesn't have the one you beat. I think this is a fold and it's not even close.

What hand does he like on the flop/turn and love on the river? I think he raises the turn with a straight like always.

Next hand.

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youre getting pretty sick pot odds, but your ahead here basically never. on paper this looks like an easy fold to me but it would be much harder in the flow of the game.

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Originally Posted by bode

youre getting pretty sick pot odds, but your ahead here basically never. on paper this looks like an easy fold to me but it would be much harder in the flow of the game.

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Of course it's harder, but you must learn to go through the same thought process while playing.

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

These posts are so level 0 it's amazing. Everybody's just 'call because we have a flushy'. There is no way an average player would take this line without a flush and he probably doesn't have the one you beat. I think this is a fold and it's not even close.

What hand does he like on the flop/turn and love on the river? I think he raises the turn with a straight like always.

Next hand.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

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Originally Posted by bode

youre getting pretty sick pot odds, but your ahead here basically never. on paper this looks like an easy fold to me but it would be much harder in the flow of the game.

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Of course it's harder, but you must learn to go through the same thought process while playing.

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i make way too many hero calls in situations like this and get owned constantly. if i could fold like 75% of these i bet i could add 1bb/100 to my winrate.

Any reads on bluffing frequency, etc?

I completely agree with P4's (though I also never ever put this fold into practice! but the aggressiveness of the game can be a big factor)

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

These posts are so level 0 it's amazing. Everybody's just 'call because we have a flushy'. There is no way an average player would take this line without a flush and he probably doesn't have the one you beat. I think this is a fold and it's not even close.

What hand does he like on the flop/turn and love on the river? I think he raises the turn with a straight like always.

Next hand.

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i have a ton of respect for your posts and definitely agree w/ you that if a solid player took this line, it would be a pretty easy fold, but i mean, you really need to go down to 100nl and play a couple thousand hands to understand that even regulars misunderstand relative hand strength and make really spewy bluffs at the oddest of times. villain could just as likely show up w/ a set here as a flush, or even a pure bluff, it's just really difficult to put players on hands when they overplay/underplay them constantly imo.

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Originally Posted by Marshall28

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

These posts are so level 0 it's amazing. Everybody's just 'call because we have a flushy'. There is no way an average player would take this line without a flush and he probably doesn't have the one you beat. I think this is a fold and it's not even close.

What hand does he like on the flop/turn and love on the river? I think he raises the turn with a straight like always.

Next hand.

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i have a ton of respect for your posts and definitely agree w/ you that if a solid player took this line, it would be a pretty easy fold, but i mean, you really need to go down to 100nl and play a couple thousand hands to understand that even regulars misunderstand relative hand strength and make really spewy bluffs at the oddest of times. villain could just as likely show up w/ a set here as a flush, or even a pure bluff, it's just really difficult to put players on hands when they overplay/underplay them constantly imo.

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i really dont think he takes this line with a set here.

i think you have to c/c river here istead of getting into this position.
I think we know by the river that he is drawing.

as played, fold (easier said then done) unless you have history that shows he may be bluffing.

either way, river bluffs rarely take the line of a re-raise/all-in.

i would not 3bet flop oop in a limped pot

Unless I'm totally off base, it seems like there are lots of hands villain could have that we beat.
1. No preflop raises mean catching just a piece of the flop may be encouraging, and ranges at that point are wide. Lots of draws.
2. The $30 bet into a $72 pot could be read as weakness, depending on stats. Villain could think his straight, set, or even 2 pr. is good.

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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez

2. The $30 bet into a $72 pot could be read as weakness, depending on stats. Villain could think his straight, set, or even 2 pr. is good.

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Wow, I didn't realize how awful that river bet was. Definite error there. I still don't think the small bet makes him value shove worse hands though.

I totally agree with P4s that this should have been a fairly easy fold. I called it at the time because it was the first flush draw I'd hit in days and thought the poker gods wouldn't do that to me. But afterwards I was really upset with my call. I knew nothing but a flush plays the way he did and there's no way mine is good. Yeah I bet small, but he still shouldn't think he can bluff me off the hand. Plus, it's so rare someone makes river raise bluffs at this level.

But honestly, if I was thinking clear at the time, not influenced by my rough run of late, I make the fold no question.

He has to raise his straights and sets on the turn pretty much always. The only 2 pr he might play this way is J5...and even if you include that in his range its still a clear fold, unless he is only raising A or K high flush draws then you could call marginally with pot odds...but thats a big stretch.

Surprising how clear a fold this is...dont think I'd make it. Have to work on that.

i had a set slowplayed on a much more draw heavy board on me today at 200nl ... all im pointing out is that these players arent logical which is why i find it difficult to fold here ...

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Originally Posted by sauce123

i would not 3bet flop oop in a limped pot

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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez

Unless I'm totally off base, it seems like there are lots of hands villain could have that we beat.
1. No preflop raises mean catching just a piece of the flop may be encouraging, and ranges at that point are wide. Lots of draws.
2. The $30 bet into a $72 pot could be read as weakness, depending on stats. Villain could think his straight, set, or even 2 pr. is good.

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chaaa

theres no way this is an easy fold. people show up with all kinds of stuff here. i call im obv not happy about it though.

He certainly can have a lot of other things here. The question is, how often do you think he plays his sets and straights this way? How many flush draws is he shoving here?

Results from http:\\www.HoldEmRanger.com
64 evaluations, 64 hole card combos

Board: 3s 2c 5s Th Js

Wins Ties Equity
38.65% 0.00% 38.65% ( 7s6s )
61.35% 0.00% 61.35% ( 33(33),55(33),A4(33),46(33),J5(33),As2s+,Ks2s+,Qs2 s+,Ts2s+ )

Close...but its still a fold if theres a 1/3 chance he is slow playing and can show up with J5 sometimes. More flushes hurt us, more slow playing and stupidity helps us. So perhaps its pretty marginal with no real read.

The real thing is raising button limpers PF, not 3 betting the flop, or betting the river stronger all make this a much easier spot.

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Originally Posted by EzDuzIt

theres no way this is an easy fold. people show up with all kinds of stuff here. i call im obv not happy about it though.

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The flop 3bet in a limped pot is pretty bad.

As played, when you get to the river, I would bet 4/5 of the pot for value and be forced to call a shove. Simply makes the hand easier to play.

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Originally Posted by langaan

either way, river bluffs rarely take the line of a re-raise/all-in.

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really? the river in this scenario is a scare card for anything but the flush draw hand. our line doesn't necessarily represent a flush draw, we 3bet the flop and lead the turn, then come out kinda weak on the payoff river. maybe the opponent isn't holding the flush draw himself, maybe he stuck himself in a weird spot with like 77, but he is able to recognize that river as a potential scare card given both our line and his own...
eh...probably unlikely the more i think about it but.....
whats weird to me is that he limped from the button preflop on a 4 handed table. then pulled some minraise bullshit on the flop. unless this guy plays the button passive as shit preflop, can't we eliminate a lot of the suited hands that we are scared of on the river?? shits weird