$100 line check

Hey guys,

I've been gone for awhile, but am back; just wanted a sanity check on this line. Villain just sat down a few orbits ago and won his stack with a set-over-set.. and seemed to like to push people around.. is this donk-ish?

edit: I should note that he waited a long time before the river push.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (4 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($160.00)
SB ($65.80)
BB ($181.50)
UTG ($172.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/2h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/5h.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50. BB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/6d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/7d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4h.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB raises to $18, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($44.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8d.gif (2 players)
BB bets $36, Hero calls $36.

River: ($116.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4c.gif (2 players)
BB bets $123.5 (All-In), Hero calls $102 (All-In).

Final Pot: $320.50

fold pre

river is snap fold.

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Originally Posted by will641

river is snap fold.

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What's villain's range here that it's a snap fold?

i would want to fold every street

a straight is the bottom of his range here

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Originally Posted by Schiplt

i would want to fold every street

a straight is the bottom of his range here

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I admit it's a very scary board to be playing this hand, but you don't see him holding air here at all? He has overs and is trying to push me off the hand?

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Originally Posted by stuck

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Originally Posted by will641

river is snap fold.

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What's villain's range here that it's a snap fold?

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a boat, better straight, flush. all you beat is a bluff. even if you called here and he showed 2 pair or something, that is turning his hand essentially into a bluff.

oops

actually after looking at the rest of the hand, you butchered it so bad you shoul dnever have gotten to the river. if u r calling his flop raise it should be to shove over his turn bet to rep the flush (which is actually pretty suicidal w/out a read).

A4dd makes a ton of sense for villain to have here.

fold river for sure, everything else is fine

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Originally Posted by gabe

fold river for sure, everything else is fine

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If he had insta-pushed I would have, but he took a fair chunk off the time-bank before acting

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Originally Posted by kapilalink

fold pre

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but they were s00ted! :roll:

I normally do, but occasionally I raise crap like this for meta-game purposes (and I show if I pick up the blinds)

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Originally Posted by stuck

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Originally Posted by kapilalink

fold pre

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but they were s00ted! :roll:

I normally do, but occasionally I raise crap like this for meta-game purposes (and I show if I pick up the blinds)

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a lot of button opening ranges has to do with the blinds and who limped. if you have weak/tight players in the blinds, its probably profitable to raise otb with 25s, because you will steal a lot, and you will likely take down most flops with a cbet. hey ill probably be seeing you at 100nl shortly!

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Originally Posted by stuck

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Originally Posted by gabe

fold river for sure, everything else is fine

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If he had insta-pushed I would have, but he took a fair chunk off the time-bank before acting

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using a chunk of time before acting can mean a million things, i would never use that to influence the decision

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Originally Posted by gabe

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Originally Posted by stuck

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Originally Posted by gabe

fold river for sure, everything else is fine

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If he had insta-pushed I would have, but he took a fair chunk off the time-bank before acting

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using a chunk of time before acting can mean a million things, i would never use that to influence the decision

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even if you are just 50/50 on a decision? say you are just dead stuck on a decision, you dont let timing be the deciding factor?

So a lot of you think I played this terribly, but I couldn't get over the feeling like he was trying to pull a fast one (like I said, he seemed to be bullying people, a bit too aggressive in the few orbits he was around). I know this is one of those situations where I'm either way ahead or way behind; I'm just having trouble figuring out why most of the people here think it's the latter instead of the former.

Here's a question: Would the river call be better or worse if the river had been a blank (say 2:c:)

Another question: What does he think I have that I'll stack off with? Granted, I'm just as much of an unknown to him as he is to me...

well you are 160bb deep here keep in mind. i sincerely doubt he is shoving just a set. i get the feeling you are being really results oriented and he showed up with like top 2 or something.

Given the board, I don't see him open-shoving a flush (I could have a weirdly played set) (am I wrong about this?). A boat /is/ a definite possibility, and the one I took most seriously. I agree with Gabe that timing can mean a million different things, but he had been acting fairly quickly before, and I think that, in the aggregate, taking a long time to open-shove more often means a bluff than not...

Though I'm starting to come around to thinking it's a bad play

def fold river

i fold flop most of the time as well and check behind at least 40%

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Originally Posted by sauce123

def fold river

i fold flop most of the time as well and check behind at least 70%

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i would prolly call flop though cause ur deep in position and have a bdfd to go with your shitty straight draw

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

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Originally Posted by sauce123

def fold river

i fold flop most of the time as well and check behind at least 70%

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i would prolly call flop though cause ur deep in position and have a bdfd to go with your shitty straight draw

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Isn't the bdfd the only thing that has a chance of being paid off making the "deep" argument valid?

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Originally Posted by stuck

Given the board, I don't see him open-shoving a flush (I could have a weirdly played set) (am I wrong about this?). A boat /is/ a definite possibility, and the one I took most seriously. I agree with Gabe that timing can mean a million different things, but he had been acting fairly quickly before, and I think that, in the aggregate, taking a long time to open-shove more often means a bluff than not...

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I should hope you can never show up with a boat here because you would have played it awful to get there. No way you don't try to get a set in on that flop.

Also, I think the insta-push would be more indicative of a bluff as that means he has already made his decision before the river. When they think for a bit I tend to believe they're trying to figure how much value they have in their actual hand.

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

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Originally Posted by sauce123

def fold river

i fold flop most of the time as well and check behind at least 70%

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i would prolly call flop though cause ur deep in position and have a bdfd to go with your shitty straight draw

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Isn't the bdfd the only thing that has a chance of being paid off making the "deep" argument valid?

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yeah...exactly...

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

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Originally Posted by sauce123

def fold river

i fold flop most of the time as well and check behind at least 70%

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i would prolly call flop though cause ur deep in position and have a bdfd to go with your shitty straight draw

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Isn't the bdfd the only thing that has a chance of being paid off making the "deep" argument valid?

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yeah...exactly...

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Sorry, I meant to imply that therefore it's not worth calling on the flop?

folding the flop is for huge nits. learn about pot odds and outs

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Originally Posted by gabe

folding the flop is for huge nits. learn about pot odds and outs

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We hit one of our "outs" and we still don't like our hand. I'm obviously not getting something here. Can you clarify gabe?

It's 12 to call in a 32,5 pot on the flop. Sure not all your outs are good always, but with position and the sd and bdfd I call.
You can't fold on the turn already.
River you can.