Everyone should watch this (Don't talk to the police)

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07-03-2008, 09:41 PM
Lukie

Everyone should watch this (Don't talk to the police)

This video has been going around the interwebs for a while, so I'm sure the majority of you have seen it. I know there videos out there with the same general point, but this one is the best IMO-- no cheesy acting, no funny costumes, just two smart people telling you in no uncertain terms that talking to the police is generally (read: always) a bad idea.

http://www.washingtonceasefire.net/content/view/109/45/

Total runtime for both speakers combined is approximately 50 minutes. I recommend watching both of them all at once.
07-04-2008, 01:11 AM
givememyleg

just watched both of these, very good stuff
07-04-2008, 01:46 AM
will641

nice post lukie. i havent watched it yet but i can tell its going to be good.

also just a random piece of advice for everyone: NEVER TAKE FIELD SOBRIETY TESTS.
07-04-2008, 02:09 AM
BankItDrew

watched both
good stuff
07-04-2008, 02:13 AM
bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

nice post lukie. i havent watched it yet but i can tell its going to be good.

also just a random piece of advice for everyone: NEVER TAKE FIELD SOBRIETY TESTS.

what is your better option here? Take a blood test/blow into the breathalizer?

I always felt I could pass a FST drunk but couldn't blow under a .08....
07-04-2008, 02:17 AM
will641

well the basic idea is that it gives them evidence. you are basically taking it to prove your innocence. i cant remember why, but there is a good reason. i was drunk when some defense lawyer at my brothers law school graduation party explained it to me so my memory is a little fuzzy.
07-04-2008, 07:46 AM
Alibi

question:
I was drunk and walking with an open container of beer when a cop stopped to give me a ticket when I was 19. Should I have remained silent and chosen to get in the car/go to the station?

also ty lukie for this
07-04-2008, 09:21 AM
spoonitnow

I've seen similar but not this particular one.

Thanks, Lukie.
07-04-2008, 10:16 AM
Deanglow

As for the field sobriety test, I hear that they always get you when they ask you to follow the light with your eye. Apparently, even with one or two beers in your system you can't keep up and you're busted.
07-04-2008, 11:59 AM
zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

what is your better option here? Take a blood test/blow into the breathalizer?

I have a friend who's an attorney and this is his advice... never admit you've had a single drink. If you admit you've had even one drink, they'll automatically give you a field sobriety test or breathalyze you. If they insist on doing one or the other anyway, ask for a breathalyzer. If you blow over 0.08, insist you haven't had anything to drink and ask for a blood test. Insist on a blood test. Hopefully by the time they take you to the hospital and you get the test, your BAC will be under 0.08. You're still not in the clear, but you'll be easier to defend in court b/c breathalyzers are much less reliable than blood tests.

But obv better to keep yourself out of this situation to begin with.
07-04-2008, 12:57 PM
wufwugy

not done with them yet. approximately 8 minutes into the first one the guy says 'never talk to IRS without a _____.' its too mumbly for me to figure out what he said. sounded like started with an M
07-04-2008, 01:03 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

not done with them yet. approximately 8 minutes into the first one the guy says 'never talk to IRS without a _____.' its too mumbly for me to figure out what he said. sounded like started with an M

IIRC, immunity.
07-04-2008, 01:08 PM
Lukie

Also, I want it to be known that I have nothing against the police. My experiences with them have always been positive, in part because I treat them with the respect that they deserve (even if you disagree with this, you better do it anyway).

However, like *every* other profession, there are some bad apples. Even ignoring that, consider the very nature of their job. I will cooperate with and help them, just not when I am involved and my freedom would be jeopardized by that cooperation.
07-04-2008, 01:46 PM
wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

not done with them yet. approximately 8 minutes into the first one the guy says 'never talk to IRS without a _____.' its too mumbly for me to figure out what he said. sounded like started with an M

IIRC, immunity.

what does it mean to talk to IRS with an immunity?

also, it looks like the information in the lectures were on police interviews. i wonder what their comments would be on non-interview related things. like the po po knock on your door and ask questions about god knows what, could be entirely unrelated to you, could be about something in the neighborhood or something

would it behoove us to simply not give the police any information about anything no matter the circumstances, even as informal and 'irrelevant' as it gets? is this a message of the lectures?
07-04-2008, 02:38 PM
euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

nice post lukie. i havent watched it yet but i can tell its going to be good.

also just a random piece of advice for everyone: NEVER TAKE FIELD SOBRIETY TESTS.

what is your better option here? Take a blood test/blow into the breathalizer?

I always felt I could pass a FST drunk but couldn't blow under a .08....

this is really, really, really not good advice. To say this "depends" is a massive understatement. Laws differ from state to state. Penalties for refusing to take the test vary from state to state, and in most states the penalties for refusal are often worse than the misdemeanor DUI charge assuming you're ever convicted of it in the first place.
07-04-2008, 02:50 PM
euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

not done with them yet. approximately 8 minutes into the first one the guy says 'never talk to IRS without a _____.' its too mumbly for me to figure out what he said. sounded like started with an M

IIRC, immunity.

what does it mean to talk to IRS with an immunity?

also, it looks like the information in the lectures were on police interviews. i wonder what their comments would be on non-interview related things. like the po po knock on your door and ask questions about god knows what, could be entirely unrelated to you, could be about something in the neighborhood or something

would it behoove us to simply not give the police any information about anything no matter the circumstances, even as informal and 'irrelevant' as it gets? is this a message of the lectures?

Haven't watched the video, will do that in a minute. If a police man knocks on your door and asks you a question about absolutely anything, you can always refuse to answer. There are very specific cases where the government can force you to speak.

Look, the basic shit is this:

You did something stupid, really innocent/small/petty like open container or pissing in public behind a bar: Admit it and beg for mercy. If you fail, its probably just a ticket anyway. Generally speaking, the cop has better to do than deal with you anyway. It takes a lot of effort to write tickets. Cops are humans.

You did something patently against the law, but not really "evil". Think, rolling through a stop sign: Be as helpful as possible to the officer, own up to it, DO NOT DENY IT, and beg for a warning. Don't play stupid. Police have excellent bullshit detectors.

You did something really bad, and it's inevitable you're going to jail: Do what the officer tells you to do (stand here, put your arms here, sit down here, etc) but Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

An officer must read you your Miranda rights when:
A) You are in custody. (Aka, "not free to leave")
AND
B) He is asking you a question about the crime. ("Hey do you know what today's date is?" does not count).

So yes, refusing to talk is not -EV, but its not +EV. So I guess that makes it about 0EV.
07-04-2008, 03:02 PM
euphoricism

Quote:

what does it mean to talk to IRS with an immunity?

It means that if you talk and implicate yourself in a crime/violation, they will not prosecute you.
07-04-2008, 03:10 PM
kmind

well then what do you do when you are completely innocent, don't have time to talk, and the cop starts beating you?
07-04-2008, 03:22 PM
euphoricism

scream "HELP HELP IM BEING REPRESSED!" oh, and cover your face.
07-04-2008, 03:54 PM
Deanglow

This is a very good guide on another forum with a lot of great discussion: http://messageboard.tuckermax.com/showthread.php?t=3032
07-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

not done with them yet. approximately 8 minutes into the first one the guy says 'never talk to IRS without a _____.' its too mumbly for me to figure out what he said. sounded like started with an M

IIRC, immunity.

what does it mean to talk to IRS with an immunity?

also, it looks like the information in the lectures were on police interviews. i wonder what their comments would be on non-interview related things. like the po po knock on your door and ask questions about god knows what, could be entirely unrelated to you, could be about something in the neighborhood or something

would it behoove us to simply not give the police any information about anything no matter the circumstances, even as informal and 'irrelevant' as it gets? is this a message of the lectures?

Haven't watched the video, will do that in a minute. If a police man knocks on your door and asks you a question about absolutely anything, you can always refuse to answer. There are very specific cases where the government can force you to speak.

Look, the basic shit is this:

You did something stupid, really innocent/small/petty like open container or pissing in public behind a bar: Admit it and beg for mercy. If you fail, its probably just a ticket anyway. Generally speaking, the cop has better to do than deal with you anyway. It takes a lot of effort to write tickets. Cops are humans.

You did something patently against the law, but not really "evil". Think, rolling through a stop sign: Be as helpful as possible to the officer, own up to it, DO NOT DENY IT, and beg for a warning. Don't play stupid. Police have excellent bullshit detectors.

You did something really bad, and it's inevitable you're going to jail: Do what the officer tells you to do (stand here, put your arms here, sit down here, etc) but Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

An officer must read you your Miranda rights when:
A) You are in custody. (Aka, "not free to leave")
AND
B) He is asking you a question about the crime. ("Hey do you know what today's date is?" does not count).

So yes, refusing to talk is not -EV, but its not +EV. So I guess that makes it about 0EV.

I agree with this.

I have no record whatsoever. Not even a traffic ticket. I think I just come off as a nice and respectful guy (which is true). I've admitted my guilt in a traffic stop and been let off anyway.

Here's a story I read earlier today: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/04/eba....ap/index.html

Cliff notes: College kid tries to sell his vote for the upcoming presidential election on E-bay. Said kid cooperates with investigators and says he did it as a 'joke'. In other words, he confessed. One of the things he's being charged with is felony bribery. I doubt this ends well for him.

Back on topic though, the big thing is that *absolutely* nothing you can say to a police in a serious situation (routine traffic stops are not serious situations) can help you; it will just be dismissed as hearsay. Even completely innocent and truthful statements can be picked apart for any sign of mistake or hostility. Anything can be used against you. Anyway, I'm just rambling now...
07-05-2008, 03:31 AM
will641

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

nice post lukie. i havent watched it yet but i can tell its going to be good.

also just a random piece of advice for everyone: NEVER TAKE FIELD SOBRIETY TESTS.

what is your better option here? Take a blood test/blow into the breathalizer?

I always felt I could pass a FST drunk but couldn't blow under a .08....

this is really, really, really not good advice. To say this "depends" is a massive understatement. Laws differ from state to state. Penalties for refusing to take the test vary from state to state, and in most states the penalties for refusal are often worse than the misdemeanor DUI charge assuming you're ever convicted of it in the first place.

LOL. ask any defense attorney that has passed the bar, and they will say never take a field sobriety test, unless you actually have had nothing to drink.
07-05-2008, 03:38 AM
pantherhound

good vid, one of the reasons I'm glad I don't live in America
07-05-2008, 12:40 PM
euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

nice post lukie. i havent watched it yet but i can tell its going to be good.

also just a random piece of advice for everyone: NEVER TAKE FIELD SOBRIETY TESTS.

what is your better option here? Take a blood test/blow into the breathalizer?

I always felt I could pass a FST drunk but couldn't blow under a .08....

this is really, really, really not good advice. To say this "depends" is a massive understatement. Laws differ from state to state. Penalties for refusing to take the test vary from state to state, and in most states the penalties for refusal are often worse than the misdemeanor DUI charge assuming you're ever convicted of it in the first place.

LOL. ask any defense attorney that has passed the bar, and they will say never take a field sobriety test, unless you actually have had nothing to drink.

Well, we're talking about different things now. Yes, I would not take a field sobriety test under any circumstances. But the breathalyzer is a different area. I realize now you did indeed specify field sobriety tests which i missed, but people should NOT construe the fact that you should refuse to take a field sobriety test to immediately construe that they should refuse to take the breathalyzer. Refusing to take the breathalyzer is a crime in itself in many if not most jurisdictions, and in almost all states it's an immediate loss of license for a year at the LEAST. Also in many places the fact that you refused to take the breathalyzer will be used against you as evidence of guilt (yep, refusal to prove your innocence looks like guilt to a jury no matter how many instructions to the contrary the judge gives. He even mentioned that in the video above) and you will receive a harsher sentence if/when convicted.
07-05-2008, 12:55 PM
euphoricism

excellent website:

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/drunk_driving/
07-05-2008, 01:17 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

NEVER TAKE FIELD SOBRIETY TESTS.

this is really, really, really not good advice. To say this "depends" is a massive understatement. Laws differ from state to state. Penalties for refusing to take the test vary from state to state, and in most states the penalties for refusal are often worse than the misdemeanor DUI charge assuming you're ever convicted of it in the first place.

LOL. ask any defense attorney that has passed the bar, and they will say never take a field sobriety test, unless you actually have had nothing to drink.

Well, we're talking about different things now. Yes, I would not take a field sobriety test under any circumstances. But the breathalyzer is a different area.

dude wat?
07-05-2008, 04:15 PM
euphoricism

yeah yeah I skimmed over that. If you read a little further down the question was asked whether you should take the breathalyzer instead.
07-06-2008, 04:09 PM
wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

what does it mean to talk to IRS with an immunity?

It means that if you talk and implicate yourself in a crime/violation, they will not prosecute you.

i guess i was ambiguous. i understand what immunity means in our legal system (law and order ftw). what im getting at is the professor saying that we should simply never talk to the irs. so if we're audited we need to not talk to them but get a lawyer or cpa to do it?

this strikes me as being very different than talking to the police so i dunno
07-06-2008, 06:22 PM
mrhappy333

good Video, Wish I saw this when I was 16!
07-06-2008, 08:18 PM
euphoricism

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Quote:

what does it mean to talk to IRS with an immunity?

It means that if you talk and implicate yourself in a crime/violation, they will not prosecute you.

i guess i was ambiguous. i understand what immunity means in our legal system (law and order ftw). what im getting at is the professor saying that we should simply never talk to the irs. so if we're audited we need to not talk to them but get a lawyer or cpa to do it?

this strikes me as being very different than talking to the police so i dunno

Never a bad idea.