Marginal spot in rr pot vs lagg

Villain is running very aggro (something like 30/25).

I've seen him rr random suited junk from the blinds quite a bit but shut down when scare cards hit the turn in rr pots.

Flop is v v close to shove, lemme know if you think it's an easy flop shove (fwiw I think it's prob a flop shove - which has nothing to do with results)

Table "Pastorale" Seat 7 is the button.
Seat 6: Laneboy (£179.90 in chips)
Seat 7: HERO (£219 in chips)
Seat 10: Loser18 (£198.70 in chips)
Loser18: posts small blind £1
Laneboy: posts big blind £2
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to HERO :ah: :th:
HERO: raises to £7
Loser18: raises to £28
Laneboy: folds
HERO: calls £21
----- FLOP ----- :4h: :6d: :td:
Loser18: bets £36
HERO: calls £36
----- TURN ----- :4h: :6d: :td: :jc:
Loser18: bets £134.70 and is all-in
HERO

if hes not going to 2 barrel scare cards i would probably just get it in on the flop. you could just min raise flop too and let him bluff over that. but i guess shoving you look like a draw or overs, either option is good i guess.

I certainly won't be fistpumping this turn call, that's for sure.

that being said, I feel alot better about calling this shove on a J turn (as KQ, AK,AQ etc) are all gonna be inclined to shove this turn, as opposed to calling a shove on some rag 2 turn or something.

callllll

griffey and nuts

how bout the flop? shove or call?

does it matter that much?

The nice thing about calling the flop and insta-calling the turn is that it protects your ability to call one street with 88 on flops like this. I think it doesn't matter that much in a vacuum but the metagame matters a lot as far as how you want to be playing vs. this guy in 3-bet pots.

hmmm that s a good point mcat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genitruc

griffey and nuts

how bout the flop? shove or call?

does it matter that much?

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Flop call is fine, unless you have a read that he 3-bets all pairs and might call with all his midpairs here to a shove, putting you on a draw. I don't mind a shove if he can showup and call with all hands like 66-99, JT-KT type stuff.

Flop call is also fine since he'll probably bluff barrel an ace on the turn.

I like shoving flop most of the time here.. pot is already big, we still have good equity vs his calling range, and any paint on the turn puts us in a tough spot.

I call flop and call any turn because there are tons of 2barrel cards in his range.

Against Loser fistpump call..

I also like flatting flop and let him barrel again

im gonna go against the grain here and say id prefer to put the raise in on the flop. dont get me wrong, im the first to take metagame aspects into consideration, but i really think that its a spot where the villain just won't know often enough if you are raising here w/ 88 or AT because of the fact that hes 3betting so light hes gonna just have to fold a lot of the time. for the same reason, im raising a much wider range here and AT would be near the top of it. imo the idea is to get him to stack off light, so i want more than just his 2nd barrel, i want his stack ... this is accomplished by raising him often and forcing him to make a stand ... otherwise the highway is free to run him over.

not to mention he could have something like Kxs or Qxs where x is like 8 or lower and spike a bigger top pair if u peel one. hand is probably good on the flop, for that reason and the ones i mentioned above, i wanna go with it immediately.

Seriously, we need to raise or shove this flop. This isn't the time to be cute or overly concerned about shania. Look at the board, look at the pot, look at our hand. Put it in.

Surely from a shania pov we should be raising this flop with our hand because we want to be able to bluff raise flops a lot when we call 3bets in position.