KQs 10/20 against dogg11

Dogg11 is a pretty solid reg. Not really out of line ever, pretty balanced all around. That being said, I've seen him make big calls and bluffs.

This for example.

POKERSTARS GAME #19271450065: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($5/$10) - 2008/08/01 - 11:08:43 (ET)
Table 'Alemannia' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($1504 in chips)
Seat 2: Dogg11 ($1147 in chips)
Seat 3: ImNotSoGood ($2300 in chips)
Seat 4: targhan ($1276 in chips)
Seat 5: HT-Max ($1000 in chips)
Seat 6: pandaCHAN12 ($1045 in chips)
targhan: posts small blind $5
HT-Max: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Ac Jd]
pandaCHAN12: folds
heybude: raises $20 to $30
Dogg11: raises $70 to $100
ImNotSoGood: folds
targhan: folds
HT-Max: folds
heybude: calls $70
*** FLOP *** [Ah 6d 7c]
heybude: checks
Dogg11: bets $135
heybude: raises $165 to $300
Dogg11: raises $747 to $1047 and is all-in
heybude: calls $747
*** TURN *** [Ah 6d 7c] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [Ah 6d 7c Ad] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
heybude: shows [Ac Jd] (three of a kind, Aces)
Dogg11: mucks hand
heybude collected $2306 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $2309 | Rake $3
Board [Ah 6d 7c Ad Tc]
Seat 1: heybude showed [Ac Jd] and won ($2306) with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 2: Dogg11 mucked [6c 8c]
Seat 3: ImNotSoGood (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: targhan (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: HT-Max (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: pandaCHAN12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

K now what do you do here?

POKERSTARS GAME #19272336895: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($10/$20) - 2008/08/01 - 11:59:52 (ET)
Table 'Anius II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($2137 in chips)
Seat 2: skier_5 ($2987 in chips)
Seat 3: Sir_DonaldRM ($2240 in chips)
Seat 4: Radioheads ($2000 in chips)
Seat 5: Dogg11 ($2791 in chips)
Seat 6: mremania ($4848 in chips)
skier_5: posts small blind $10
Sir_DonaldRM: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Qc Kc]
Radioheads: folds
Dogg11: raises $40 to $60
mremania: folds
heybude: calls $60
skier_5: folds
Sir_DonaldRM: folds
*** FLOP *** [6c Qd 4h]
Dogg11: bets $115
heybude: raises $185 to $300
Dogg11: calls $185
*** TURN *** [6c Qd 4h] [3h]
Dogg11: checks
heybude:

how looose does he run pre?

like 22/18

Pot control turn and get value on the river. I think value on the river is very thin, but I would still do it, mostly to balance the times I'm bluffing (by representing thin value).

I don't know if raising this flop texture this thinly accomplishes much for you when u are ip.

The main reason we play top pair type hands aggressively on the flop is to justify an increase in our bluff frequency. That isn't super necessary here because there aren't that many hands we are going to want to bluff raise on this flop. Most of the time we'll be floating him when we decide to bluff. I think having sets/overpairs and maybe AQ in our range is enough combinations to allow us to bluff raise plenty.

Also I think playing tpgk fast like this has much less value when in position. If u were check raising him from the blinds he might bet call any gutshot or pair, but out of position you are forcing him to fold those hands.



I guess as played I'd check and call river or bet when checked to, but I really don't like how we've manipulated his range up to this point.

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Originally Posted by Renton

I don't know if raising this flop texture this thinly accomplishes much for you when u are ip.

The main reason we play top pair type hands aggressively on the flop is to justify an increase in our bluff frequency. That isn't super necessary here because there aren't that many hands we are going to want to bluff raise on this flop. Most of the time we'll be floating him when we decide to bluff. I think having sets/overpairs and maybe AQ in our range is enough combinations to allow us to bluff raise plenty.

Also I think playing tpgk fast like this has much less value when in position. If u were check raising him from the blinds he might bet call any gutshot or pair, but out of position you are forcing him to fold those hands.



I guess as played I'd check and call river or bet when checked to, but I really don't like how we've manipulated his range up to this point.

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Nice. I don't raise this flop very much either but this was the first time ive played him sooooo i decided to raise bcuz i felt it could be either played back at or called lightly (less so the ladder)

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renton

I don't know if raising this flop texture this thinly accomplishes much for you when u are ip.

The main reason we play top pair type hands aggressively on the flop is to justify an increase in our bluff frequency. That isn't super necessary here because there aren't that many hands we are going to want to bluff raise on this flop. Most of the time we'll be floating him when we decide to bluff. I think having sets/overpairs and maybe AQ in our range is enough combinations to allow us to bluff raise plenty.

Also I think playing tpgk fast like this has much less value when in position. If u were check raising him from the blinds he might bet call any gutshot or pair, but out of position you are forcing him to fold those hands.


I guess as played I'd check and call river or bet when checked to, but I really don't like how we've manipulated his range up to this point.

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Nice. I don't raise this flop very much either but this was the first time ive played him sooooo i decided to raise bcuz i felt it could be either played back at or called lightly (less so the ladder)

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Good post renton and ISF I agree with your thinking. I feel he is most likely to assume your range here is super polarized until he has evidence to the contrary rather than the other way around and hence he will play back at you a lot.

Hand 1 - what's the motivation behind c/r the flop with AJ, as opposed to calling down? (or is it the obvious answer of the fact that he bluff shoved this flop with worse?)


Hand 2 - I think I end up calling down here pretty often, to balance with the times I call down with more midpair hands. But if your read was that he'd bluff shove again, then I like the raise.

As played, I'd check turn and get value on river.

checking behind to get value on the river is super transparent. checking behind turn doesnt really make sense because we arent really folding here, and whether we bet the turn or the river he is still going to give us at least 1 street of value usually, so lets bet the turn. i prefer to 3-street it here and try to get him to call you with TT,JJ,QJ due to some set-or-bluff read.

bair why can't we be giving up on a bluff?

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Originally Posted by Renton

bair why can't we be giving up on a bluff?

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we can, but then when we bet the river, his calling range is manipulated strictly on what the river card is, putting us in a situation where we dont have probable value in a spot where i feel we have guaranteed value. this is obviously because if we were giving up on a bluff, for us to bet the river something must have changed. therefore checking the turn and valuing the river would only be good on A,K,2, and 7 rivers, which is a generous range considering A and K are likely holdings for him. this is all obviously dependent on him thinking we're bluffing so its not THAT important, but i hate missing out on an easy opportunity to make our ranges ridiculously balanced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bair

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renton

bair why can't we be giving up on a bluff?

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we can, but then when we bet the river, his calling range is manipulated strictly on what the river card is, putting us in a situation where we dont have probable value in a spot where i feel we have guaranteed value. this is obviously because if we were giving up on a bluff, for us to bet the river something must have changed.

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I think this is a good post, I think i agree with Renton more though (at least on calling the flop being much better even in a vacuum).

One other thing I'm really hating on the flop is how balanced I made his range. He's likely flatting the flop with pretty much everything he's stacking off with imo.

i think its much more likely that we are bluffing if we raise the flop and go for 2 more streets because floating w/ air and flatting with TP are so standard. from a metagame standpoint this line should make his c/r's and nut lines weighted heavily towards bluffs and semibluffs making him foolishly easy to play against. he is now polarized and we are balanced. if he flips AA here we can continue to play the same way because we are expected to polarize. i guess its a decision between high vs low variance.