Couple of potentially too thin vb's on 4-straight vs donkeys

Hand 1, villain is 44/9, passive station.

Button ($1086.40)
SB ($404.50)
Hero (BB) ($445)
UTG ($1066.55)
MP ($433.50)
CO ($800)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
3 folds, Button calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises $18, Button calls $18

Flop: ($46) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $32

Turn: ($110) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $80, Button calls $80

River: ($270) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $130

--

Hand 2, villain runs ~41/6 over 80 hands, wtsd 21 and high agg%'s though these obv haven't converged at all yet. No read but he's no JoeThePro!


BB ($445.30)
UTG ($400)
Hero (MP) ($1034.50)
CO ($400)
Button ($783.20)
SB ($472)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
1 fold, Hero raises $14, 3 folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($30) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $24, BB calls $24

Turn: ($78) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $50, BB calls $50

River: ($178) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $110

I'm fine with 1 but I think 2 is borderline. Technically your hand is stronger in the 2nd hand but the board is worse/may hit his range a little harder on average. I also think you get more calls by worse hands in the first one than the second, although both of these guys are probably capable of astonishing feats of derring-d'oh!.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dalecooper

I'm fine with 1 but I think 2 is borderline. Technically your hand is stronger in the 2nd hand but the board is worse/may hit his range a little harder on average. I also think you get more calls by worse hands in the first one than the second, although both of these guys are probably capable of astonishing feats of derring-d'oh!.

---

i think this is well put and i dont know what else to add. im definitely happier betting the river in 1 than 2, but i still think donks like this look you up with worse.

i would probably leave out villains river action in both hands to encourage more discussion.

:h: both

What would be bad about checking the river behind in hand 2? If he was thinking I could see the bet but we're talking bad players....

my turn bet in hand 1 would be bigger

Bet/fold both seems good to me.

i really feel like you can bet 180 or 190 on the river on hand 1 and get the same result.

1 is good, 2 too is prob too thin; i like betting a smaller amount.

1) Yea bet bigger ~180 but this is good/std
2)what midstakes donk said