I just like to hit buttons

Villain was Taggy(21/17) over less than 100 hands and 3bet about 11% so far. We do not have any 3betting history & my image is clean 18/15 TAG. My plan was to CRAI flop w/ a favorable board. He can only call about 2.5% of his hands at the most. I figure he has to bet the Ace on that flop so I led the turn repping a missed AK CRAI. The only hand I can put him on after the turn raise is a re-steal, Tc9c, 6c5c, 77-88 or a weaker A like AJs, AQ
What do you think?

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($101)
UTG ($171.05)
MP ($88.30)
Button ($110.60)
Hero (SB) ($133.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
3 folds, Hero raises $3.50, BB raises $13, Hero calls $10

Flop: ($28) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

Turn: ($28) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $20, BB raises $45, Hero folds

Total pot: $68

fold preflop every time

I figured I would get a lot of that. At what point do you begin to play back at these guys? At what 3bet% & what typical holding do you use? Or should I just 4bet bruff?
Another question is how many hands of data do I need to know 11% 3betting is too much.

calling with 44 is not playing back.

All the questions about 3 betting are situational. When is he threebetting? from what positions, and who?

shove PF if he 3bets a lot

calling has to be the most -EV of all the options

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

shove PF if he 3bets a lot

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how is this better than just 4betting to like $33? solely on the fact that he can bluff shove? because i dont think your standard nl100 villain is doing that enough here, even bvb

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

calling has to be the most -EV of all the options

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agree with this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

calling with 44 is not playing back.

All the questions about 3 betting are situational. When is he threebetting? from what positions, and who?

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He is three betting people IP and once as a re-steal from BB vs BU. Basically taking advantage of wide raisers and position. If you read OP you would see the plan to play back. Calling was just to prevent AQ+ from shoving on me and then to find a favorable flop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

shove PF if he 3bets a lot

calling has to be the most -EV of all the options

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Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better.


If you have seen my posts lately, I'm not one who's unwilling to embarrass myself. I know a lot of these hands lately are crappy, but I am really trying to work on my game after playing on cruise control for over a year.
I do appreciate all comments, but please make them constructive.
I think I have identified a better way to play back, 4bet bluff or wait for a better spot. Now, what does anyone make of my original plan to play back? Decent given the math of folds I get on a low board with no A or K or Qlowlow type boards? Or is it pure spewtastic letting my HUD dictate a play after only 70 hands or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

I figured I would get a lot of that. At what point do you begin to play back at these guys?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

We do not have any 3betting history

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Not at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

At what 3bet% & what typical holding do you use? Or should I just 4bet bruff?
Another question is how many hands of data do I need to know 11% 3betting is too much.

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Don't be a HUD bot. Someone already mentioned looking into the situations when he 3-bets too much instead of assuming he just does it all the time from everywhere. If he's not getting totally out of line with you specifically, the best play by far is to fold preflop.

The question should be is 4bet shoving for value or as a bluff. What hands do you think he's 3betting there? and how does 44 stack up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

shove PF if he 3bets a lot

calling has to be the most -EV of all the options

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Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better.

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well if you small 4bet are you calling a shove?

4bet jamming is fairly neutral EV, I've done the math, if he's 3betting 11% it might actually be +EV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better.

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Not necessarily, check-raising the flop does though. At least shoving gets it in with 35% equity or so as opposed to 10% or less.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

Shoving seems like it lets him play most optimally. I would think a 4bet bluff is better.

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Not necessarily, check-raising the flop does though. At least shoving gets it in with 35% equity or so as opposed to 10% or less.

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Haha, I was writing a big post about this. Then when I was done I looked back and said fuck it, I didn't make that very clear at all and erased it. I look at the thread again and mcat naturally summed up my paragraph of madness into one neat concise little sentence.

I can't believe this is what the TAGGnits are calling with when I 3bet them sb vs bb

I always wondered wtf you guys had here

No reason to even ATTEMPT 44 here unless there's a 3rd in the pot, calling IN FRONT of you. Otherwise, SUPERfold pf, with equity.