Messin at 400nl

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10-04-2008, 10:01 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Messin at 400nl

I've been downswinging really big so I'm grindin 2/4 for a bit. Jschalach is a guy ive played a lot, he's 15/12 really low threebet and in general pretty straight forward but he's not bad really, just very tight preflop. He probably thinks im a guy who is tight preflop but kind of spewy and decent.

Pretty much I think his threebet range is AK/JJ+ but I know I can really efficiently bluff him on very specific flops and he'll check down AK a decent amount so I'm just calling all pp's here and shoving QQ+ preflop, though I'm sure he doesn't outrule me calling with AA-KK, sc's and AK/AQ.

Pretty much yeah, he has KK/QQ like 95% of the time. I'm kind of torn between just folding the river, betting turn and betting river, or this:

PokerStars Game #20933379877: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/10/04 21:30:00 ET
Table 'Merga IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: BLACKICE781 ($405.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Jschlach ($839.35 in chips)
Seat 3: heybude ($374 in chips)
Seat 4: LA DEMONIA ($364.40 in chips)
Seat 6: jslots14 ($295 in chips)
BLACKICE781: posts small blind $2
Jschlach: posts big blind $4
KOTSpoker: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Js Jc]
heybude: raises $8 to $12
LA DEMONIA: folds
jslots14: folds
BLACKICE781: folds
Jschlach: raises $32 to $44
heybude: calls $32
*** FLOP *** [As 9c 4d]
Jschlach: checks
heybude: checks
*** TURN *** [As 9c 4d] [9h]
Jschlach: checks
heybude: checks
*** RIVER *** [As 9c 4d 9h] [9s]
Jschlach: bets $60
heybude: raises $270 to $330 and is all-in
Jschlach:
10-04-2008, 10:46 PM
Deanglow

Why not try and be more credible on flop/turn?
10-04-2008, 11:24 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

Why not try and be more credible on flop/turn?

I can see this player checking both AA and AK on this flop, thats why.
10-05-2008, 12:22 AM
meeloche

I don't think I'd put you on AA or AK after you check the turn. Honestly this looks a lot like what you actually have. If you want him to fold KK/QQ I think you have a better chance of doing that by betting turn and river.
10-05-2008, 12:35 AM
swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeloche

If you want him to fold KK/QQ I think you have a better chance of doing that by betting turn and river.

What I was thinking
10-05-2008, 01:13 AM
EzDuzIt

id rather bet turn and river but i like this too.
10-05-2008, 01:44 AM
UG

Quote:

Originally Posted by EzDuzIt

id rather bet turn and river but I like this too

I agree with betting the turn *and* river, but I don't really like just betting the river. I mean, it's probably ok, but at the same time your line really screams bullshit and everything in his supposed range beats you, hopefully he didn't hear the bullshit screams.
10-05-2008, 07:18 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

you think anyone is dumb enough to fold an A here against you?
10-05-2008, 07:49 AM
Fnord

What do you think about BLACKICE781?
10-05-2008, 09:43 AM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

you think anyone is dumb enough to fold an A here against you?

If the shove was a bit bigger relative to the pot than in this scenario, I think some people can level themselves into folding an A here thinking they are at best chopping.

It would definitely fold QQ/KK going for thin-value though I'd imagine.

Like others said though, I'd prefer a bet turn, shove river line. Just seems more believable.
10-05-2008, 11:19 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

you think anyone is dumb enough to fold an A here against you?

So you feel like this is a spot where people bluff a lot? Or just me? Because if its me versus anyone else im folding KK/QQ.
10-05-2008, 11:45 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

I mean if you think this is exactly KK or QQ i'd rather minraise.
10-05-2008, 12:30 PM
nutsinho

this is straight donating. have you ever seen anyone use this line for value?
10-05-2008, 12:54 PM
dalecooper

I feel like he only folds this if he's a real coward ("plausible line be damned, I just don't want to lose mah moniez!") or if he levels the shit out of himself. Therefore I don't like it.
10-05-2008, 03:45 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

this is straight donating. have you ever seen anyone use this line for value?

I mean my logic was who the hell takes this line as a bluff either?

I think as I look back I think the best play was to either go bet/bet on turn and river or c/f all the way. He did end up folding after like 10 seconds of deliberation, I ofc showed and he said "damn I almost called" and I jokingly remarked "You had better than JJ and FOLDED!?"
10-06-2008, 12:50 AM
Alexos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

I mean if you think this is exactly KK or QQ i'd rather minraise.
10-06-2008, 03:41 AM
Genitruc

the standard logic is "don't bluff him until you have a read that he can fold and you can easily rep a big hand"

I think more profitable thinking vs standard/weak regs at these stakes should be "don't hesitate to ship until you have a read that they're capable of making big calls"

assuming it doesn't tilt you like a monkey the times you do get called.
10-06-2008, 09:56 PM
silu73

I don't like this hand at all. I agree with your reasoning but I think you made your move a street to late.
10-07-2008, 12:09 AM
bigspenda73

I know it's 5-handed, but I mean, isn't a nits 3bet range in the blinds vs. an UTG open like ridiculously tight?

I like minraise