I'm not happy with the 'standard line' here

I just think that if the money goes in on the flop I'm ahead of too strong of a range and the mistake of often getting in with ~6% equity is a large cost to make up out of the rest of his range. Do I have to get AI?

Villain is 25/22/aggro. Don't have my database open at the moment so I've no other info. There was nothing special anyway.

$2/$4 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($703.66)
CO ($414.20)
BTN ($482.10)
Hero ($401.40)

Pre-flop: ($6, 5 players) Hero is SB :6s: :7s:
3 folds, Hero raises to $12, BTN calls $8

Flop: :qs: :5s: :4s: ($24, 2 players)
Hero bets $18, BTN raises to $56,

Interesting. I just get it in but after stoving it I think you're behind his stack-off range (55,44,Asxs,KsJs,54s). Flat and c/r blank turn?

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Originally Posted by zook

Interesting. I just get it in but after stoving it I think you're behind his stack-off range (55,44,Asxs,KsJs,54s). Flat and c/r blank turn?

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i was thinking this, but it seems to me like hes only betting sets and bigger flushes and checking behind everything else.

i just call flop. i call down or c/s turn depending on the card and his betsize. Another spade or board pair would be a c/f

Does it change much if you limit the amount of AsXs hands in his range Zook? I think it would be a mistake to have all of them there.

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Originally Posted by will641

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Originally Posted by zook

Interesting. I just get it in but after stoving it I think you're behind his stack-off range (55,44,Asxs,KsJs,54s). Flat and c/r blank turn?

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i was thinking this, but it seems to me like hes only betting sets and bigger flushes and checking behind everything else.

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Yeah I thought this too.

What about calling the flop and small-donk/calling non-board-pairing, non-spade turns? That way we still get stacked by the same range of bigger flushes but we have better equity against his sets and his semi-bluffs if he shoves these because we've seen one blank card.

Well note there are only 6 spades in the deck that potentially make us lose...

I look at opponents range here and I see his raising range is probably just the nuts and air, maybe doesnt even have a spade in the air. Normally, I just make some dumb raise to 150 in hopes of leveling that my holding is weaker than it is if he has like KQ no spade or AQ no spade or something.

I don't like getting into donking the turn here, not in a situation where your literally almost never showing up with bluffs. I think id either raise again on the flop or follows nutsinho's line. Your flop flatting range is likely unbalanced anyways.

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I don't like getting into donking the turn here, not in a situation where your literally almost never showing up with bluffs. I think id either raise again on the flop or follows nutsinho's line. Your flop flatting range is likely unbalanced anyways.

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This is true. I guess nut's line or 3bet/call it is then.

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

i just call flop. i call down or c/s turn depending on the card and his betsize. Another spade or board pair would be a c/f

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I agree with this, even though you look sooooo strong if you C/S turn

If he is on the nutflush draw he will almost always go with it on the flop. I would call the flop raise and potsize a blank turn out of possition. If he instashoves this then I would have to think your upagainst like KQs

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Originally Posted by Love2Race

If he is on the nutflush draw he will almost always go with it on the flop. I would call the flop raise and potsize a blank turn out of possition. If he instashoves this then I would have to think your upagainst like KQs

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I don't like this line at all....you don't give him chance to bluff the turn...you're line looks so strong - what is he going to put you on?..... you give him the chance to not put his whole stack in with a set....If you fold when he raises then you've put in $136 just to see where you're at.

OOP and with a weak flush I would rather play this hand fast and aggressive. If the turn does blank and you give him the draw there are 15 cards on the river that can freeze your action and promote a bet/bluff by villain. I dont see the sense in getting too crafty without the nuts on this board. Now if the turn was the 8s or 3s that could get things heating up.

You must think about how our hand does against his calling range if you want to play it fast/aggressive. Against his calling range if we get it in on the flop (I assume we are committing ourselves if we reraise) we are either drawing extremely thin against a higher flush, or not too far ahead vs a set/higher flush draw.

There is value in playing our hand deceptively, we can get villain to put more money in on a double barrel bluff/may get another bet out of TP etc, whereas by playing it fast we can only really get into a situation where we aren't really in that great shape against his range.

Yes the turn will kill out action a fair % of the time, but IMO it makes up for the times when we get more value out of him by taking this line.

As far as our range goes, we keep a much wider range by just calling the flop then checking the turn, than if we reraise the flop. Which is always a good thing.

That makes sense too. With that said, is there a wrong play in this spot?

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Originally Posted by Love2Race

That makes sense too. With that said, is there a wrong play in this spot?

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It's hard to go really wrong but I'd always rather take the best line obv.

I don't mind donking the turn even though you never show up with bluffs.

I mean, if you flat his raise on the flop, do you ever show up with bluffs?

By donking the turn, you may represent a top pair hand or AsXx type hand and he might spazzz.

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Originally Posted by Grinder4Life

I don't mind donking the turn even though you never show up with bluffs.

I mean, if you flat his raise on the flop, do you ever show up with bluffs?

By donking the turn, you may represent a top pair hand or AsXx type hand and he might spazzz.

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you only have15 posts to ur name, but you've already become famous for loving to donk bet all the time :lol:

If you flat the flop bet at least your repping something less than the nuts and protecting your call raise after flop cbet range here. Balance is important.