3bet pot, dry board and donked into

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11-22-2008, 12:24 AM
griffey24

3bet pot, dry board and donked into

-this hand is 4handed, and is the fist hand that got folded to us bvb and tis is the first time I've 3bet him
-villain runs 26/19/3.66, but I've never played him really short handed before, but he's somewhat of a reg. We've never tango'd that much before
-his fold to 3bet is around 65%
-I realize the easy answer here is to just fold flop, but I have no clue what hand would play like this? Is this a good spot to float/raise?

$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($985.00)
BTN ($565.57)
SB ($1171.84)
Hero ($980.00)

Pre-flop: ($15, 4 players) Hero is BB :ks: :ac:
2 folds, SB raises to $30, Hero raises to $90, SB calls $60

Flop: :4h: :3c: :qs: ($180, 2 players)
SB bets $150, Hero ?
11-22-2008, 12:54 AM
baudib

Again this is where I am totally speaking out of my element, but why is it that difficult to put him on a hand? He could easily have a medium pocket pair that doesn't put you on a Q, or he could simply have a Q and wants to see where he stands.

The pot is $180 so a $150 bet seems fairly solid....Isn't this a dangerous spot to float because you could be reverse dominated vs. KQ/AQ? as in many cases, calling seems the worst of all options.
11-22-2008, 01:01 AM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib

Again this is where I am totally speaking out of my element, but why is it that difficult to put him on a hand? He could easily have a medium pocket pair that doesn't put you on a Q, or he could simply have a Q and wants to see where he stands.

The pot is $180 so a $150 bet seems fairly solid....Isn't this a dangerous spot to float because you could be reverse dominated vs. KQ/AQ? as in many cases, calling seems the worst of all options.

I definitely agree that I'm dominated by KQ/AQ, but it just seems odd to me that he'd call a 3bet OOP with these and then donk so hard into me on this particular flop, that I'm very likely to bet with my entire 3-betting range here.

Also, with regards to calling/floating vs raising. I think given how dry the board is, I'd probably call with my entire value range here, so I should probably call with my floats too... but thats debatable.
11-22-2008, 01:08 AM
baudib

you mean you're not reraising AA/KK here? If so then ok.

thanks for not calling me an idiot, I don't know how to play these meta games at this level.
11-22-2008, 01:10 AM
baudib

also isn't it a given that in SB vs. BB to give the BB less credit than normal (much like a raise on the button)? AQ is probably strong enough to call OOP in such cases for most.
11-22-2008, 02:03 AM
nutsinho

id drop it with no history but definitely play back if hes played weird in 3bet pots before
11-22-2008, 02:28 AM
IowaSkinsFan

def fold, but given question, i think the next best option is raise.
11-22-2008, 03:14 AM
Sup3rM4N

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib

thanks for not calling me an idiot, I don't know how to play these meta games at this level.

lolllll +1
11-22-2008, 09:44 AM
griffey24

Hmm ok I might have butchered this hand by deciding to float the flop then, and I'm not sure this turn card makes a difference or not....

$5/$10 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($985.00)
BTN ($565.57)
SB ($1171.84)
Hero ($980.00)

Pre-flop: ($15, 4 players) Hero is BB :ks: :ac:
2 folds, SB raises to $30, Hero raises to $90, SB calls $60

Flop: :4h: :3c: :qs: ($180, 2 players)
SB bets $150, Hero calls $150

Turn: :qc: ($480, 2 players)
SB bets $250, Hero ?
11-22-2008, 12:21 PM
Galapogos

These situations you basically have to fold without a read. Although this board is different, I've seen a lot of players do this with JJ type hands on a low board, or even with a medium PP that they won't fold for some reason.

As played since you seem intent on winning this hand, you have the best chance of repping a good hand by calling the turn and then shoving the river if he checks to you. No one's going to raise the turn with a Q or AA-TT.
11-23-2008, 07:49 PM
bode

im still lost on the fact that you're reverse dominated by KQ/AQ.
11-23-2008, 08:49 PM
thizzSantaCruz

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

im still lost on the fact that you're reverse dominated by KQ/AQ.

Because villain has top pair, beating our high card hand and has some of our outs if thats his hand.
11-23-2008, 11:32 PM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

im still lost on the fact that you're reverse dominated by KQ/AQ.

Because villain has top pair, beating our high card hand and has some of our outs if thats his hand.

yeah, i read hero's hand as AA :oops:
11-24-2008, 12:10 AM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

As played since you seem intent on winning this hand, you have the best chance of repping a good hand by calling the turn and then shoving the river if he checks to you. No one's going to raise the turn with a Q or AA-TT.

Yah I'm not really sure on if its best to call turn here or raise turn. I definitely agree that calling here is probably the most balanced with what I'd do with overpairs here.

If he's ever on some weird small pair bluff here though, and will continue to bluff the river with it, then shoving could be best.

How spewy is a two steet float here in this spot, with no concrete reads other than he's a reg, who's donking into me on this board in my first 3bet pot with him of the night?