SB vs BB Hand vs Fnord (for you to misread)

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11-25-2008, 05:39 AM
Fnord

SB vs BB Hand vs Fnord (for you to misread)

Hero is a TAggy regular in this game. I think he can get kinda spazzy at times.
Fnord is me.

We've gone deep in pots a few times in the past and flipped QQ vs AK for 150bb. Overall a healthy relationship filled with mistrust.

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($200.00)
CO ($200.00)
BTN ($264.55)
Hero (SB) ($392.00)
Fnord (BB) ($193.00)

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players) Hero is SB :4s: :7s:
3 folds, Hero raises to $6, Fnord calls $4

Flop: :qc: :js: :3s: ($12, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, Fnord calls $10

Turn: :5c: ($32, 2 players)
Hero bets $26, Fnord raises to $78, Hero goes all-in

How'd he do?
11-25-2008, 07:18 AM
minSim

From a microstaker;

Depending on how much FE he has (seems like very little) and if you're ever doing this with a draw, it's very marginally +EV to very +EV.

If you only show up here with very good hands it's better for him to call for his straight/flush.
11-25-2008, 10:16 AM
kettleofish

*Standard never played this high disclaimer*

Well i guess b/3b is better than c/raising (at least he puts you to a decision for all your chips!!1111!). The healthy mistrust would have to make him think a lot of your range is air here for this is to be a good shove tho IMO, as it's tough for you to fold any of your draws once you raise the turn and they'll all be better than his? I guess if you've got a club combo draw at least he has his 12 outs.

P.S I'm curious as to what line the better players here take with 'hero's' hand here postflop? I'd never open 47ss bvb against someone like Fnord so i'm stumped as to the best way to play it.
11-25-2008, 10:45 AM
Galapogos

Is there's such mistrust why are you trying to play crap like 47s vs his BB?

.... kidding kidding....

Anyway, I don't think I like his push. Since he knows who you are, I don't think he would expect you to raise here without expecting to get it in since the turn is the ultimate non-bluff card. Even your likely semi-bluffs, pair with turned flush draws, are still ahead and there's no way you're folding after you raise.

So he has to put you on total air a lot for this to be any good, and I don't think you would have it here, since this line doesn't look like anything you likely won't try an air bluff really ever.
11-25-2008, 10:48 AM
griffey24

Really don't like hero's push. I'd rather c/raise this turn before b/3betting this turn if I was hero.

I think fnord has at worst JTcc here or something.
11-25-2008, 12:06 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by kettleofish

I'd never open 47ss bvb against someone like Fnord so i'm stumped as to the best way to play it.

*shrug* I defended with Queen Five offsuit. :oops:
Next orbit he still raised my BB from the SB...
11-25-2008, 12:36 PM
a500lbgorilla

I don't think it's that bad. Fnord is repping the top of his range and Fnord is spewy enough that our FE makes this ok.
11-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Fnord is repping the top of his range.

Given the board texture, I think the flop flat discounts a lot of hands.
11-25-2008, 12:45 PM
a500lbgorilla

I really don't think so. The flop flat would suggest that but Fnord is clever enough to flat and readjust to any turns which might discount the value of QJ.
11-26-2008, 03:27 AM
nutsinho

it seems like a super close/annoying fold as played but a 100% fold preflop. play super tight from the sb and insanely loose from the bb in blind battles guys, take it from me.
11-26-2008, 03:38 AM
Fnord

...it depends on how the BB plays. Against me, it's probably correct unless you have a lot of HU experience or I think you're a nit.
11-26-2008, 03:46 AM
minSim

Nuts, bundle all your posts in a book.
11-26-2008, 04:40 AM
Irisheyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

it seems like a super close/annoying fold as played but a 100% fold preflop. play super tight from the sb and insanely loose from the bb in blind battles guys, take it from me.

OK so I'm going to bite on this.

Folded to us in SB. BB in standard TAGfish who reraises 6.5% and cold-calls 8% (I have this stat on my hud but in general 2+2 over the last few years has completely drilled cold-calling out of the mentalities of all the TAGfish and none of them do it that much).

Assuming I can play decently postflop against this guy how am I not correct in opening 75% to 85% of hands here? I think it's going to be so immediately profitable that it will be hard to lose enough postflop to destroy the overall profitability of the situation.
11-26-2008, 04:41 AM
Irisheyes

I agree with playing insanely loose from the BB vs SB opens though.
11-26-2008, 06:45 AM
Fnord

Against players who fold their BB too much, it's a really easy open if you know enough to just give up on a fair % of flops because they are playing too tight of a range and have position and are probably pretty miffed at you for picking on them so they might be picking a spot where not much is going on with their other 7 tables to play some actual poker back at you.

That said... I think proper HU strategy has us playing less than 85% of our hands on an OOP open.
11-26-2008, 08:31 AM
Irisheyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

That said... I think proper HU strategy has us playing less than 85% of our hands on an OOP open.

Reword this please? Don't really get what you mean.
11-26-2008, 10:27 AM
IowaSkinsFan

I really don't like what fnord did on the turn with nearly any hand.
11-26-2008, 10:48 AM
Irisheyes

I think fnords range is 90% draws.
11-26-2008, 10:52 AM
nutsinho

well ofc we arent folding vs some random pretty bad or very tight tagfish. its not really a blind 'battle' if our opponent sucks and we can mechanically exploit him with PFR+cbet. im pretty sure fnord is not the type of guy you want to be opening very loose against though.
11-26-2008, 12:22 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

That said... I think proper HU strategy has us playing less than 85% of our hands on an OOP open.

Reword this please? Don't really get what you mean.

OOP open, as in the SB is first to act on every betting round. As opposed to the correct HU blind structure that encourages more action by giving the SB the button.
11-26-2008, 12:23 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I really don't like what fnord did on the turn with nearly any hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

I think fnords range is 90% draws.

Oh that turn was such a wonderful card. I'm repping so few hands here and that's a great thing with so much mistrust in the air...
11-26-2008, 12:58 PM
bigspenda73

ATcc for Fnord?

maybe I'm stop n going the river on any black card if I'm Hero
11-26-2008, 01:12 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

ATcc for Fnord?

I already said that I had Queen Five and it wasn't even s00ted.
11-26-2008, 01:43 PM
bigspenda73

So?
11-26-2008, 09:07 PM
Renton

he should fold preflop and turn is probably close between betting and c/c, as played he should fold or call depending on how optimistic his math is, shoving is the worst option
11-26-2008, 09:13 PM
baudib

Fnord is my hero. I'm guessing you had AK and won the flip?
11-27-2008, 03:39 AM
Irisheyes

lol
11-27-2008, 03:58 AM
nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudib

Fnord is my hero. I'm guessing you had AK and won the flip?

I hope you are visited by the fairy of Largamenthon.