iopq plays 50 nl fullring and we judge him. Part 1

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12-07-2008, 06:08 PM
a500lbgorilla

iopq plays 50 nl fullring and we judge him. Part 1

Hero sent me a big file of hands for me to post the interesting ones. Then I noticed that I'd play them all differently. Sometimes it's betsizing and stack-to-pot ratio planning, other times it's his decisions. So, everyone gets to pick his game to pieces is this multi-part series! I may have added 2 or 3 hands that I think he plays perfectly, just so you can't go crazy with nitpicking because you think something has to be wrong in every hand!

If you participate in these threads, maybe we can do you next!

Hand 1

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($35.40)
BB ($47.25)
UTG ($11.20)
UTG+1 ($49.95)
Hero (MP1) ($50)
MP2 ($61.60)
CO ($37.45)
Button ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75, 4 folds

Flop: ($4.25) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold

Total pot: $4.25 | Rake: $0.20

Hand 2

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($10)
UTG+1 ($10)
Hero (MP1) ($99.80)
MP2 ($63.15)
MP3 ($20)
CO ($55.30)
Button ($46.60)
SB ($25.50)
BB ($12.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, 4 folds, SB calls $2, 1 fold

Flop: ($5.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.50, 1 fold

Total pot: $5.50 | Rake: $0.25

Hand 3

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($50)
SB ($5.95)
BB ($32.10)
UTG ($53.45)
UTG+1 ($69.45)
MP1 ($88.85)
Hero (MP2) ($50)
MP3 ($10.65)
CO ($56.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
3 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 4 folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, 1 fold

Total pot: $3.25 | Rake: $0.15

Hand 4

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($27.70)
UTG ($22.35)
UTG+1 ($46.25)
MP1 ($11.95)
Hero (MP2) ($56.20)
CO ($59.35)
Button ($40.20)
SB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4, UTG calls $4

Turn: ($13.25) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($13.25) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $13.25 | Rake: $0.65

Hand 5

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($50.20)
UTG ($1.90)
UTG+1 ($33.10)
MP1 ($53.95)
MP2 ($69.45)
MP3 ($88.85)
Hero (CO) ($51.75)
Button ($10.65)
SB ($56.45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.75, 3 folds, UTG calls $1.40 (All-In), 1 fold

Flop: ($5.05) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($5.05) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($5.05) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $5.05 | Rake: $0.25

Hand 6

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($10)
CO ($10)
Hero (Button) ($96.75)
SB ($56.05)
BB ($49.10)
UTG ($29.50)
MP1 ($12.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
1 fold, UTG calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.50) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold

Total pot: $4.50 | Rake: $0.20

Hand 7

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($69.40)
MP1 ($15.50)
Hero (MP3) ($99.95)
CO ($50)
Button ($50)
BB ($17.35)
UTG ($45.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, 3 folds, UTG calls $1.75, MP1 calls $1.75

Flop: ($7) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $5, 2 folds

Total pot: $7 | Rake: $0.35

Hand 8

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($50.70)
MP1 ($1.90)
MP2 ($31.90)
MP3 ($53.95)
CO ($69.45)
Button ($88.85)
Hero (SB) ($52.75)
BB ($10)
UTG ($56.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
7 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.50, Hero folds

Total pot: $2 | Rake: $0.10

Hand 9

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($34.30)
Button ($55.25)
SB ($69.05)
Hero (UTG) ($58.95)
UTG+1 ($15.25)
MP1 ($9.75)
MP2 ($120.30)
MP3 ($65.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
4 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.50) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($1.50) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, 2 folds

Total pot: $1.50 | Rake: $0.05

Hand 10

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($10)
BB ($10.75)
Hero (UTG) ($95.40)
MP1 ($59.85)
MP2 ($56.05)
CO ($49.10)
Button ($12.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
Hero raises to $1.75, MP1 calls $1.75, 5 folds

Flop: ($4.25) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP1 calls $3

Turn: ($10.25) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks

River: ($10.25) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks

Total pot: $10.25 | Rake: $0.50

Hand 11

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($55.85)
Hero (MP3) ($79.85)
CO ($17.50)
Button ($47.75)
SB ($50)
BB ($20)
UTG ($42.15)
UTG+1 ($8.75)
MP1 ($11.85)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
UTG calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $4, UTG calls $4

Turn: ($13.25) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($13.25) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $6.50, Hero calls $6.50

Total pot: $26.25 | Rake: $1.30
12-07-2008, 06:09 PM
a500lbgorilla

Oh and the only rule is iopq doesn't get to defend himself! He can ask questions, and disagree with posters but he can't outright defend his own play.
12-07-2008, 06:21 PM
Muzzard

1) fold PF, actually looking back its okay.. I thought u were in earlier position thanHJ
2) Fine, but why the different pfx? Or did someone post and its just not com up in the HH
3) Fine
4) I just limp behind here PF, fine otherwise
5) I either fold pre or just limp behind, 9Ts is a good multiway flop hand and ur shving utg all in if u raise.
6) Fine
7) Fine
8) PF? Why only min raise. I cbet too
9) I bet flop
10) Fine
11) I probably fold river

On a general note keep ur pfx sizes the same. It seems as though u just randomly select a pfx size with no overal basis. I tend just to use 3bb+1 for every limper.
12-07-2008, 06:27 PM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

On a general note keep ur pfx sizes the same. It seems as though u just randomly select a pfx size with no overal basis. I tend just to use 3bb+1 for every limper.

ignoring your hand analysis for now, I'd generally disagree with this or atleast I don't practice it
12-07-2008, 06:35 PM
Muzzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

On a general note keep ur pfx sizes the same. It seems as though u just randomly select a pfx size with no overal basis. I tend just to use 3bb+1 for every limper.

ignoring your hand analysis for now, I'd generally disagree with this or atleast I don't practice it

I'm not saying we need to be rigid, we need an overall strategy. I used to do 4bb in EP and 3bb in LP. It just looks as though IOPQ just randomly comes up with an amount - sorry if there is some 'overall stragey' behind his sizing, enlighten us.
12-07-2008, 06:41 PM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

sorry if there is some 'overall stragey' behind his sizing, enlighten us.

uh... ok

I just like to be able to raise/bet various amounts on all streets and not have it seem out of order for my overall strategy. It may not be the best advice for you guys, but it's what I practice.

your post seems tilty by the way and I cant figure out why
12-07-2008, 06:54 PM
mieczkowusc

Hand 1: If there had a few limpers, I would agree with the raise, but as played I would fold preflop. On the flop, however, I think the cbet was good. You would have to be pretty strong to contest that flop.

Hand 2: I would make it $3 on the flop. This is a really dry board, and you should try and extract some value out of it.

Hand 3: Same deal, smaller flop bet. IMO.

Hand 4: I'm not cbetting this flop. If the villain checks the turn, I am trying to take it down.

Hand 5: I would have avoided raising the T9s when there was a shortie in the mix.

Hand 6: Seems fine to me.

Hand 7: I would check, what is calling you that you beat?

Hand 8: Why the min-raise? If this were suited, I could understand it, but if you are going for a steal, then raise like a man. As played, I check-fold the flop.

Hand 9: Bet the flop, you are probably getting flush draws along for the ride. They are also less likely to think you made your straight and may chase further.

Hand 10: OOP, I think I check this one. If I was in position, I am probably betting.

Hand 11: I think you played this fine.

Don't take any of what I said as what is right, its just my opinion.
12-07-2008, 07:11 PM
killerkebab

Hand 1: Why are we raising 87s in MP1? Fold pre imo, as played though this is a good flop to cbet.

Hand 2: I probably cbet smaller here, if at all. There really isn't much our opponent is going to be calling us with here that we beat.

Hand 3: Same as hand 2.

Hand 4: Looks fine to me, although that limp call smells like a pocket pair and most of those beat us right now. Maybe we should rep an ace on the river.

Hand 5: We should limp behind with T9s. We have a great multiway hand and we don't want to force UTG all in just yet. Lets see a cheap flop if possible.

Hand 6: Looks fine to me.

Hand 7: I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand I don't like to cbet into multiple opponents, but I'm not sure with our hand.

Hand 8: What are we doing preflop here?

Hand 9: Raise preflop. Bet flop.

Hand 10: Flop is very drawy and you're likely to get called by a lot of things. I don't cbet here. You get called by a ton of hands that beat you, and you don't force much of anything better than you to fold.

Hand 11: Fine to me, though I'm not sure if I check the turn.
12-07-2008, 07:47 PM
badgers

1 pf is obv marginal. Flop is fine although I probs bet $3 because I think his calling range would be the same.
2 dno why 4.5x. Flop is also a bit big.
3 " " 3x. " " " " " "/
4 bet river
5 no no no no no. no.
6 yeah. I might check flop if i was being a tricky monkey.
7 I check flop here.
8 wtf minraise as played cbet.
9 raise pf bet flop
10 maybe cf flop deopend on villain
11me likey
12-07-2008, 07:59 PM
a500lbgorilla

Hand 1: preflop is fun, but you have to bet less on the flop. If he's folding for 3.5, he'll fold for less!
12-07-2008, 09:09 PM
allabout

Didn't read the other comments so I'll see how I agree...

Hand 1 - Don't mind opening it sometimes, but I probs bet a little smaller on the flop, like $3

Hand 2 - seems ok, I don't usually change my pfr size w/premiums but eh.

Hand 3 - same as last hand, fine, but don't know why your changing bet sizes from basically the same position unless you have some reason

Hand 4 - I might bet the river to try to get him off 66, 77, 88 etc.

Hand 5 - don't like this with the short stack in the pot, fold pre

Hand 6 - I usually open to a little more, but otherwise seems ok

Hand 7 - again I usually open a little more, I probably check the flop, not sure if thats right hmmm...

Hand 8 - I'd open to at least $1.50 and cbet always this flop

Hand 9 - I would raise preflop and bet the flop, smaller pairs like 66 and down I would check pre

Hand 10 - I would probably c/fold this flop, theres a lot he can call with and not much that helps you

Hand 11 - bet the flop a little more like $4.50 but otherwise fine

Also I'm not a big fan of changing your preflop raise sizes so much. I definitely change mine a little but seems like your leaving too much value especially raising limpers. But if you have some kind of strategy then thats cool.
12-07-2008, 09:12 PM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Hand 10 - I would probably c/fold this flop, theres a lot he can call with and not much that helps you

So money. I think it's bad to cbet this flop with this hand.
12-07-2008, 10:03 PM
Illfavor

H4, I'm wondering what he's folding on this flop to the cbet? If a A/K falls on turn, are we firing again?
H9, I'd bet something to build the pot with your big hand.

I have a question for you better players. In hands 2/3, is the villains range likely to be polarized? Are they folding most marginal hands to this bet? I was thinking that if this was true, could we bet less (like 1/2 pot) to keep those hands in the mid of range more likely to chase drawing really slim? Those flops just seemed really dry.
12-07-2008, 11:04 PM
kb coolman

First, major props to 'rilla for taking the time to set this up. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Hand 1: I don't like the raise from EP with SCs. Nice bluff with the c-bet. Any call here and you're beaten.
Hand 2: Non scary board, I think the pot bet is a little much. Maybe check behind? No real concerns.
Hand 3: Fine.
Hand 4: Reads/Range would be nice here. You're scared of the overs or the 3? Bet the turn, c/f the river.
Hand 5: Nice. I like the PF raise to isolate the shorty.
Hand 6: TPGK, I like it.
Hand 7: 2/3 pot on a K flop. This situation always scares me a little, and I don't really know how to play it. Normally, I play JJ like most other PPs, and I'm always unsure how to bet the flop with overs on the board. I assume this bet is to buy the pot from position?
Hand 8: Fold or raise more pre-flop.
Hand 9: Bet the flop with the open ender to build equity. It's worthless when the nine hits on the turn.
Hand 10: If you're gonna bet the flop from EP, you need to continue on the turn.
Hand 11: Meh....bet the turn.
12-07-2008, 11:52 PM
paulwright

1. No need to bet pot on flop. $2 or $2.50 would do the same.
2. Very dry flop. WA / WB. Bet half pot or maybe even check flop to let them catch up a little - you are trying to max your value by letting this street go cheap.
3. Pot is smaller than last hand and you need to build here so betting full pot or close too is fine.
4. Bet less on flop and double barrell with a safe turn. As played - shoot at river scare card as it smacks your range.
5. Fold or limp. You want to get SC's cheap and multi way. T9s is one of the worst however.
6. Fine
7. Fine
8. Raise more from SB. Dont be a puss. As played - lead full pot. You made a mess of this hand.
9. Full pot on flop. You need to build it up fast.
10. I would not c-bet this flop. As played - check turn is fine - but fire half pot at river.
11. You got into this mess playing QTs. As played - bet $6 on turn. As played - you gotta fold river and know it is your fault.
12-08-2008, 01:24 AM
kmind

1. don't get cbet size
2. don't get cbet size
3. raise more preflop
4. I'd probably limp behind, betting river as played
5. i think it's fine
6. raise more pre
7. fine
8. raise more pre, probably bet flop
9. checking or raising pre is fine i think but i'd raise, and bet flop
10. yeah
11. yep

but blah at no reads so wtf
12-08-2008, 02:06 AM

I'd play them all the same!

EDIT!!!!

1st rule of this thread is you can't defend yourself! You just need to sit back and think about these plays, not what you were thinking at the time! {a500lbgorilla}
12-08-2008, 06:29 AM
Erpel

Going out of my way to be critical here - some comments may not be warranted.

1) Fold pre is good, this is fine occasionally. Cbet can safely be smaller imo like $2.5
2) I would delay the cbet to turn or even river to let the opponent catch up to a worse hand. SPR is 2 and an open shove is not uncallable by worse (on a later street).
3) Raise more pre. I'd probably delay this cbet also. SPR is about 10 and I don't need to play for stacks with an overpair here.
4) With UTG this short I feel better about overlimping here pre. I'm basically playing for set here without stack odds. I put the villain here on 66-88 or something of similar strength, and I think given the turn (and river) it's safe to fire more barrels. On the turn I think a second barrel is ok - on the river as played I think betting is almost mandatory.
5) Pre-flop overlimp to get multiway with a suited connector in good position imo.
6) Fine, except (having read kmind) here SPR is 6 and with a PFR of $2.5 SPR would be 5 and with $3 SPR is 4. If shooting for TPGK a lower SPR is possibly better to shoot for.
7) Possibly check behind. Only really getting called by weak kings here that didn't want to bet out of position. A delayed cbet might get T9 type hands to call also. Flop is dry enough that WA/WB can apply. Happy to stack off against MP1 (only) due to stack sizes and flop check.
8) Sklansky-Chubukov ranking for QTo is 15bb, so with 20bb in BB and him playing with imperfect knowledge a PF open shove is probably not -EV - so folding seems wrong. A more normal bet size to $1.75 should work PF and I am also in favour of near-pot-size cbetting an A-high dry flop here.
9) Raise pre and bet flop as played imo.
10) I'd feel better about the cbet if we had even a tenuous connection to the flop. Personally, I'd probably screw up the hand and spew off some money for no good reason here.
11) Fine to me.
12-08-2008, 08:33 AM
bikes

In general OP cbet wayyyy to big
12-08-2008, 08:55 AM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bbickes

In general OP cbet wayyyy to big

definitely something he needs to address, imo
12-08-2008, 08:57 AM
a500lbgorilla

As far as flop decisions go, hand 7 is definitely the most interesting. But I would not bet so much, if I bet and I think checking this flop would be neat.
12-08-2008, 09:56 AM
Vrax

1. For me, too early for such a PF play, I'd rather just fold. Flop bitchslapped our range, so good bet on flop.
2. yawn
3. yawn (in 2 and 3, checking behind super dry board with goodish hands may be an option against spewier opponents)
4. g00t. Although river greatly improves our range, there's no need to bet it, we got enough SD value.
5. Bad hand selection, SC's have poor preflop equity, and vs shortstack idiots we are forced to play all-in pots way more often. KJ+ however is teh nutz in that spot.
6. yawn
7. Bet that flop 3-way in position, don't check it back. Checking would be neat, but in heads up in smaller pot. Well played.
8. I don't know, I play loose tables and BvB hand happens once per two weeks on my tables. Q high has showdown value on that flop, so trying to check it down is ok imo.
9. Full PSB on flop (or slightly more, like $2-$2.5). Good equity vs anything, blockers vs T8 make it profitable to play big pot, when we make straight. We'll take it down on flop very often, and if we don't, typical calling hand will be pair+draw and 2-pairs, so we'll have easy decisions on turn. Slight overbet has wonderful properties of freezing opponents into "just call" mode unless they have nut straights.
10. c/f flop, because we are ISF-fucked and it's not a good board to play chicken against LP calling range.
11. Good raise if there are nits in late positions. But if UTG is pegged as passive table sucker, bet/fold the turn, don't pot control this hand.
12-08-2008, 10:01 AM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

11. Good raise if there are nits in late positions. But if UTG is pegged as passive table sucker, bet/fold the turn, don't pot control this hand.

Yah, I'd really like to see a turn bet/fold.
12-08-2008, 10:12 AM
XTR1000

#1 std with tight LP´s left to act

#2 std, cbet less on such a dry flop

#3 std, whats up with different betsizes pre? I usually open a bit more in EP than from LP, but those 3 have all been MP opens?

#4 meh, not the greatest spot to cbet but its okay assuming a big cards limping UTG but bet less to have a cheaper double barrel on good turn or rivercards. Turn is a horrible double barrel. Bet river.

#5 I like. Limping behind sucks with UTG this short.

#6 nh

#7 fine. although its tempting, dont check back flop.

#8 dont minraise. dont even open QT unless BB is extremely loose or extremely tight. Standard would be to cbet that flop, Im check/raising here a decent amount vs the bet-when-ckecked-to fanclub.

#9 Bet flop for value cuz u have the best hand more often than not. Dont get crazy about your sd, only 6 outs are clean.

#10 C/f flop

#11 Kinda loose iso. Assuming a somewhat fishy opponent this is the wrong board for pot control, turn is super easy b/f. You´re almost always ahead of his c/c-c/c range and he´s unlikely to bluff river oop or to call another bet with weaker.
12-08-2008, 03:09 PM
Robb

I saw this just now, and wrote down my thoughts on a couple of hands before I read the other comments.

1. Fold preflop, but as played perfect place for a cbet.
8. Don't enter blind war as PFR from SB unless you're ready to 2 barrel lots of flops, and this was the one of the right flops for cbetting, imo.
9. Why NOT cbet here?
10. Why cbet here?

Of course, we don't see any reads that IOPQ had while playing, so we're judging in a vacuum. Lots of these actions would make sense if we knew more. For example, the PFR w/ 98s out of MP makes sense if the LP players are nits.

I'll admit I'm learning the most by reading what some of the top FTR regs are saying about the hands. Thanks IOPQ and rilla!!
12-08-2008, 03:32 PM
a500lbgorilla

Hand 1: Bet less on the flop. You could probably scale it as low as 2.25. Also allows for future bluffs to be smaller if you think is capable of calling one street with a King here.
Hand 2: Aside from betting less on this flop, opponent has a 25 dollar stack. If he calls, pot will be 14.50 and he'll have 19 behind. If you bet less, you increase the range of hands he'll call for value and you could have 12.5 in the pot and him 20 behind. 7 turn, 13 river is an ez game.
Hand 3: This one was fine because he'll never fold a jack and probably call one with 55-TT. But checking behind would be neat. I'd bet 3 on any turn.
Hand 4: Initially, I though check/fold flop. With the flush draw, you can try get a little value out of your opponent and maybe he'll peel with something. However, I would turn 44 into a bluff on this river. Board just runs out really bad for a lot of hands op can have that beat you.
Hand 5: Just fold preflop. I don't really understand this play at all. Trying to iso MP1 by giving him good odds because UTG always calls?
Hand 6: Pretty standard
Hand 7: Already said I would bet less. Probably 4. Checking behind would be keen even though it's 3 ways. Wonder what I'd do on a 4/9 turn a Q/A/T and a K/blank.
Hand 8: This hand is pretty bad. BB is going to call with everything. Then you get the perfect flop to cbet and a good one to check/raise. It makes sense if BB is a hyper-nit.
Hand 9: I would raise pre for value and this flop is just too delicious not to bet. Lots of value declined.
Hand 10: You have to c/f this flop. So many hands will call you and not fold to turn barrels (which I don't know you're capable of pulling off with your image). Pairs/draws, pure draws, pairs. Every hand folding is worse than yours except 22-66, which is a tiny fraction of his hands.
Hand 11: I think this is a clear turn b/f. Get value.
12-08-2008, 05:30 PM
Monty3038

Re: iopq plays 50 nl fullring and we judge him. Part 1

I was really hoping to get in on this action, so without reading the other responses I'm going to give this a shot to see where my leaks are in comparison... (I play micros by the way, 10Nl)

Hand 1) I never raise suited connectors like this, maybe I'm missing something. As played, flop c-bet is the way to go, really they have to be super strong to contest it. Any resistance leads to your easy fold.

Hand 2) I bet about 3 here as a c-bet, trying to keep him in the hand, reaching for value. In the micros though you'll probably see a fold no matter what.

Hand 3) Already from 3 hands I see his game is way more aggressive than mine. I like this hand, nothing I can see wrong with post flop.

Hand 4) After the pre-flop call here, I'm slowing down, without reads I'm putting him on a pair or high Ax, Kx, so not much that I can beat in that range... I think I'm checking this flop, then betting this turn for about 1/2 pot at that point. Any aggression from villian makes me dump it.

Hand 5) no problem here, if MP1 calls though this hand changes drastically, IMO

Hand 6) I think this is pretty standard, though you might want to lower the flop bet to extract value?

Hand 7) I like, played just as I would have thought.

Hand 8) Min raise? Hmm... I don't like it. If you are stealing from SB why not go to 3xBB at least? I think fold pre-flop is my move if I'm not serious about stealing. After called, any aggression by villian is insta-fold, you got crap.

Hand 9) Yeah, I'm ok with the check pre-flop though not thrilled about it, on flop I'm betting .50 to show I hit the small pair, keeping them in the hand I think for one more street at least, then hoping one takes the initiative... then I call it down.

Hand 10) I don't mind it, but I think I bet the river for 3/4 pot, looks like MP1 is on busted flush draw.

Hand 11) I think is pretty standard, but may be a leak in my game if I'm wrong, I play a lot of TP, sometimes out of position.

Thoughts, comments, all are appreciated!
12-08-2008, 05:46 PM

Monty: if he's on a busted flush draw, why would we bet the river? To make him fold AKs? because that's the only busted flush draw we don't beat
12-08-2008, 06:16 PM
AFchung

all of these hands look really standard

hand 1 was wtf to me though haha. talk about laggy here. i thought it was a 6m hand when i first read it
12-08-2008, 07:09 PM
badgers

Re: iopq plays 50 nl fullring and we judge him. Part 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty3038

Hand 1) I never raise suited connectors like this, maybe I'm missing something.

By "like this" do you mean in early/middle position or do you mean you never raise them? If the latter, yes you are missing something.
12-09-2008, 09:05 AM
Monty3038

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Monty: if he's on a busted flush draw, why would we bet the river? To make him fold AKs? because that's the only busted flush draw we don't beat

What if he is on a small pair?

Here is my thinking... if he was on a flush draw, he isn't calling any bet anyway, so no more value in showdown, win it here. If he has a small pair, he will probably fold to aggression, thus you win it right here. If he is on AK, you are splitting the pot going to showdown, better to win it right here... in regards to hands you beat at showdown, well, get some value out of it?

Or is my thinking crappy here?
12-09-2008, 09:06 AM
Monty3038

Re: iopq plays 50 nl fullring and we judge him. Part 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty3038

Hand 1) I never raise suited connectors like this, maybe I'm missing something.

By "like this" do you mean in early/middle position or do you mean you never raise them? If the latter, yes you are missing something.

I wasn't very clear was I? Anyway, I do mean that I have a hard time with suited connectors in any position. I rarely raise them from any position. Sometimes I limp them from late position looking to catch something, but no, I don't play suited connectors well. I don't feel at all confident with them so I avoid them.
12-09-2008, 09:33 AM
Robb

Re: iopq plays 50 nl fullring and we judge him. Part 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty3038

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monty3038

Hand 1) I never raise suited connectors like this, maybe I'm missing something.

By "like this" do you mean in early/middle position or do you mean you never raise them? If the latter, yes you are missing something.

I wasn't very clear was I? Anyway, I do mean that I have a hard time with suited connectors in any position. I rarely raise them from any position. Sometimes I limp them from late position looking to catch something, but no, I don't play suited connectors well. I don't feel at all confident with them so I avoid them.

Here's how I learned to play sc's. I eased into playing them. I picked a couple of the higher quality sc's (98s and 87s) and started open raising them from the CO and BTN. They play about like small pp's when you catch air - you can often cbet and rep the high cards, and you'll find some equity quite a lot.

When you get confident playing them, then you can add in T9s, 76s and 65s (I don't play the tiny sc's - they can be troublesome hands). Next, I started trying to find spots against Laggy PFR's in the hijack/cutoff and 3bet them with a quality sc from the BTN. See how that goes. If you pick the right spots, you can play them with very little risk and learn the ropes before you add the entire range of sc's and all the other spots they can be profitable.