IS folding here too weaktight?

villain was your standard TAGGY player (21/12/2.7 thru 311 hands) and I had not seen him do anything out of the ordinary.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($111.40)
Button ($107.90)
SB ($141.85)
BB ($68.85)
Hero (UTG) ($115.05)
MP ($100)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($9) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls $7

Turn: ($23) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, SB raises to $49, Hero ???


Was my bet sizing ok and with villains stats this looks like an easy fold to me but wanted to throw it out to the group to get others thoughts.

There's nothing you can beat except a bluff right (7h6h)? I would think you're drawing dead.

Easy fold with zero history.

I probably check the turn and bet or call the river if he's not a station though. Since there's only one real draw on the flop, and if he's probably like most guys that peel the flop once with a PP then give up immediately on the turn.

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Easy fold with zero history.

I probably check the turn and bet or call the river if he's not a station though. Since there's only one real draw on the flop, and if he's probably like most guys that peel the flop once with a PP then give up immediately on the turn.

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I really like that line and need to work on using it more often. My standard play when I think someone is floating me light is to bet again on the turn (it comes from watching a Dogishead video on DC where he advocates betting until villain tells you that you are beat), but I think this line, on a dry board like this, gives villain a chance to bluff on the river.

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Originally Posted by GatorJH

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Easy fold with zero history.

I probably check the turn and bet or call the river if he's not a station though. Since there's only one real draw on the flop, and if he's probably like most guys that peel the flop once with a PP then give up immediately on the turn.

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I really like that line and need to work on using it more often. My standard play when I think someone is floating me light is to bet again on the turn (it comes from watching a Dogishead video on DC where he advocates betting until villain tells you that you are beat), but I think this line, on a dry board like this, gives villain a chance to bluff on the river.

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Seems weird he'd advocate doing that all the time. Was he OOP in that particular instance? I just find there's a fair amount of situations where checking the turn is best IP.

ILoveTebowsNutz is at 100NL now? wtf

nice

Checking the turn seems results oriented here. I see no reason to check here unless I had a read that villain folds tons of turns, and calls bet/check/bet lines very lightly.

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Originally Posted by kmind

ILoveTebowsNutz is at 100NL now? wtf

nice

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now don't go jumping on the Swiggidy hate wagon.

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Checking the turn seems results oriented here. I see no reason to check here unless I had a read that villain folds tons of turns, and calls bet/check/bet lines very lightly.

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What hands do you think he's calling an UTG raise with from the SB that's giving us 3 streets of value?

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Checking the turn seems results oriented here. I see no reason to check here unless I had a read that villain folds tons of turns, and calls bet/check/bet lines very lightly.

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i agree. the 9 is such a neutral card for his range that i wouldnt expect to get c/r very often.

I'm not sure about this one, its certainly close. He's never vbetting worse, however the turn card only hits 99 and Q9, so he either slowplayed the flop or has that. I do fold though, this is not a spot where someone is going to bluff you an exploitable amount at 100nl.

his turn raise size makes me think bluff

His turn raise size made me think he wanted me to shove over it. I folded

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Checking the turn seems results oriented here. I see no reason to check here unless I had a read that villain folds tons of turns, and calls bet/check/bet lines very lightly.

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What hands do you think he's calling an UTG raise with from the SB that's giving us 3 streets of value?

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We may only be able to get 2 streets of value here. That's fine. But I'd rather get the first two streets in, in this kind of spot, to make any draws pay (67,78, A3s,A2s) and to double/triple barrel bluff in the future.

Also I'm pretty sure a ton of pairs are calling this flop, 77-JJ and especially hands like 88-JJ. I'm not convinced that some of these hands won't call a double barrel here as well.

i think you bet too much on flop

id bet 5-6 since we should have a pretty good idea of a tags SB call of an UTG open.

your turn bet is fine imo, now fold. not sure how much we can read into bet sizing but if a nits going to play back at you it would usually be on the flop.

def. fold as played OP. and fwiw, 21/12 isnt "standard tag" really.

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

i think you bet too much on flop

id bet 5-6 since we should have a pretty good idea of a tags SB call of an UTG open.

your turn bet is fine imo, now fold. not sure how much we can read into bet sizing but if a nits going to play back at you it would usually be on the flop.

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flop bet size is meh, $5-6 into $9 isnt a very good cbet size usually. turn bet size is ok, but i wouldn't hate it if we made it $16.

i know flop bet size is standard overall but i think standard in this spot should be 5-6 ;)

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

i know flop bet size is standard overall but i think standard in this spot should be 5-6 ;)

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i dont know why i said "flop bet size is standard". I think i meant turn bet size, but i just woke up.

Betting so small on this flop isn't good because on this dry of a flop, villains are going to be peeling alot of 66-JJ type hands, which is a good chunk of his range here. He's going to peel these hands vs our range regardless of whether we make it $5 or $7, so maximizing your bet size here is best imo.

imo we great a greater % of calls vs these guys with these holdings nad feel $5 provides greater profit than $7. Also we can in future keep our cb sizes small when we whiff. vs these guys we never need to cb larger on almost any flop since there range is super narrow

I know this is getting a tad off topic from the original post, but I would like it if others could weigh in on their thoughts around cbet sizing. AT 50NL my standard cbet size was roughly 3/4 pot because there were far more calling stations and that maximized my equity against those calling stations. That bet size also seemed to do a better job at getting folds when I wiffed the flop and made it easier to put villains on a close range thus making turn play easier.

On the other hand I have read posts in the past where at the higher levels the cbet standard is closer to 1/2 pot because there are more thinking players at the higher levels who will float you on the flop more. Although I have just recently moved to 100NL it certainly does appear that I am getting floated more on certain types of boards than I did at 50NL.

Thoughts?

I usually check the turn against an aggro opponent.
If I bet out here, I've already made my mind up on what to do if he shoves over.

This board is very dry, and there's a clear hand that you're repping. In this kind of spot I think its fine to bet around 6 and then barrel pretty often.

If you bet 6, its very likely that ppl will call midpair type hands but will have a tough time calling double or triple barrels.

If you bet too much on the flop, it could potentially change his range that he gets to the turn with, quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by GatorJH

I know this is getting a tad off topic from the original post, but I would like it if others could weigh in on their thoughts around cbet sizing. AT 50NL my standard cbet size was roughly 3/4 pot because there were far more calling stations and that maximized my equity against those calling stations. That bet size also seemed to do a better job at getting folds when I wiffed the flop and made it easier to put villains on a close range thus making turn play easier.

On the other hand I have read posts in the past where at the higher levels the cbet standard is closer to 1/2 pot because there are more thinking players at the higher levels who will float you on the flop more. Although I have just recently moved to 100NL it certainly does appear that I am getting floated more on certain types of boards than I did at 50NL.

Thoughts?

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I don't have a default cbet size. My size depends on a lot variables such as board texture/villain/stacks etc.