cbetting in 3bet pots..

I've been 3betting a wider range today, not a stupid polarized range like I used to, all semi-decent hands (besides the premiums) like KTs, 88 etc. My instinct is to always cbet, because I should still have a frighteningly strong range when 3betting, but I'm getting raised, or even more likely shoved on, quite a lot. If I cbet under half pot, I feel like I'm portraying weakness, so they could just be jumping on that, that's why I'm cbetting 2/3 pot now. Should I treat it more like a standard raised pot and just give up on some flops or..?

It takes a stronger hand to call a 3bet than to 3bet, so once they call it they are probably ahead of your range, particularly if your range includes hands like KTs.

whether or not to use a polarized/unpolarized or small/wide 3bet range should depend on your opponents and your position, not how badass you think you are at poker. the decision to cbet depends on your actual hand, your perceived range, and villains range. your strategy of cbetting 2/3 pot on every flop with a wide 3betting range vs most callers is usually nothing short of terrible though. Cbetting 1/2 pot or 1/3 pot or 1/10th pot isnt inherently 'weak'; it isn't anything. it's just a bet. if your opponents play too loosely and aggressively against a certain betsize, or too tight or passively against a different betsize, then by all means exploit them. if they are raising small cbets light, then when they raise, shove your marginal hands with decent equity and slowplay monsters. if they are floating them light, bet 1/3 pot on flop and 5/3 pot on turn. fuck them, they suck, take their money. the more of a theory/skill edge you have on your opponents, the more maneuverability you want to have on all streets in a poker hand. if you are just blasting away at every pot when their range has a big equity edge against your hand or hand range, you are going get into terrible spots on the turn, and you are going to get killed even by pretty bad players. In 3bet/4bet pots in 100ish bb poker,any lines that will allow you to threaten an all in by the river without making a ridiculous overbet are viable.

Nuts you are the god of fucking poker

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Originally Posted by ZwiFT

Nuts you are the god of fucking poker

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QFT

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Originally Posted by jackvance

I've been 3betting a wider range today, not a stupid polarized range like I used to, all semi-decent hands (besides the premiums) like KTs, 88 etc. My instinct is to always cbet, because I should still have a frighteningly strong range when 3betting, but I'm getting raised, or even more likely shoved on, quite a lot. If I cbet under half pot, I feel like I'm portraying weakness, so they could just be jumping on that, that's why I'm cbetting 2/3 pot now. Should I treat it more like a standard raised pot and just give up on some flops or..?

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Nutsinho beat me to it, and said it much better than I would ever have. I was just going to mention all the things you mentioned Jack had to do with you, your hand and a fairly rigid strategy.


By the way Nuts, you answered my PM with the same answer.

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

if your opponents play too loosely and aggressively against a certain betsize, or too tight or passively against a different betsize, then by all means exploit them. if they are raising small cbets light, then when they raise, shove your marginal hands with decent equity and slowplay monsters. if they are floating them light, bet 1/3 pot on flop and 5/3 pot on turn.

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Main problem is it's hard for me to get a good read on these tendencies (how each individual villain behaves in 3bet pots). 3betting happens somewhat rarely (I'm not 3betting people like a monkey), often it gets folded to, sometimes 4bet/shoved on preflop, and when we do take a flop, it's rare to get a showdown without putting your whole stack in. But yeah I'll just keep at it, the wider 3betting (I always 3bet like a nit in the past) and hope I get more of a grip on it.

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Originally Posted by jyms

I was just going to mention all the things you mentioned Jack had to do with you, your hand and a fairly rigid strategy.

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You nailed it there.. I'm working on it though.

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Originally Posted by jackvance

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Originally Posted by jyms

I was just going to mention all the things you mentioned Jack had to do with you, your hand and a fairly rigid strategy.

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You nailed it there.. I'm working on it though.

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Not exactly my words, but clarified by whoever edited it.

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

whether or not to use a polarized/unpolarized or small/wide 3bet range should depend on your opponents and your position, not how badass you think you are at poker. the decision to cbet depends on your actual hand, your perceived range, and villains range. your strategy of cbetting 2/3 pot on every flop with a wide 3betting range vs most callers is usually nothing short of terrible though. Cbetting 1/2 pot or 1/3 pot or 1/10th pot isnt inherently 'weak'; it isn't anything. it's just a bet. if your opponents play too loosely and aggressively against a certain betsize, or too tight or passively against a different betsize, then by all means exploit them. if they are raising small cbets light, then when they raise, shove your marginal hands with decent equity and slowplay monsters. if they are floating them light, bet 1/3 pot on flop and 5/3 pot on turn. fuck them, they suck, take their money. the more of a theory/skill edge you have on your opponents, the more maneuverability you want to have on all streets in a poker hand. if you are just blasting away at every pot when their range has a big equity edge against your hand or hand range, you are going get into terrible spots on the turn, and you are going to get killed even by pretty bad players. In 3bet/4bet pots in 100ish bb poker,any lines that will allow you to threaten an all in by the river without making a ridiculous overbet are viable.

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This advice alone has me inspired by your skill in poker. Wow, I will take your words as gems. I am glad there are players like you on this forum. I have to thank you for your dedication here and to all the regulars here as well.