the ace, the king and lots of pf action

My third hand at the table, no reads on CO. From waiting for my seat for two orbits the BB doesnt seem very competent. Although Im likely to be ahead of BB´s range this is a no brainer fold, right?

$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($108.95)
CO ($103.30)
Hero (BTN) ($98.50)
SB ($29.45)
BB ($76.75)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BTN :ac: :kd:
UTG raises to $3.50, CO calls $3.50, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, BB raises to $76.75, UTG folds, CO raises to $103.30

Yup, I fold this.
However, I would squeeze to $15-16 (instead of $14).

Definately fold and your sqeeuze size seems fine to me.

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Originally Posted by jimmy44

Yup, I fold this.
However, I would squeeze to $15-16 (instead of $14).

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This.

i lean towards a fold, but wtf is CO doing this with? Is someone behind him really squeeze happy? idk, if CO knows BB is bad then he might be shoving like 99-JJ here for value and if your pretty sure you're ahead of BB's range it might be closer to a call with all the dead monies.

I think CO is very likely holding 2 of our outs. If UTG is tight from UTG, I'll sometimes just call w/ AK.

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Originally Posted by Silly String

I think CO is very likely holding 2 of our outs. If UTG is tight from UTG, I'll sometimes just call w/ AK.

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i will vs nits, but even vs a nitty UTG raiser im squeezing when i can w/ AK.

I kind of think the best hand CO will show up with is JJ here, or maybe like a previous poster said AK. Of course folding is cheap and you get to build reads based on the showdown, but our hand is uber strong (obviously). I think I would call here and go on tilt when I get shown AA/KK.

Maybe CO is slow playing to keep the fish in the hand? That seems like the only way we would be beat, and I don't think most people think on this level.

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Originally Posted by bode

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

I think CO is very likely holding 2 of our outs. If UTG is tight from UTG, I'll sometimes just call w/ AK.

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i will vs nits, but even vs a nitty UTG raiser im squeezing when i can w/ AK.

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I'm not suggesting that we flat here with a caller as our hand play much worse multiway even in position. I was putting CO on a hand for you. The only real hands that make sense are TT/JJ(nit) & AK. I lean toward putting CO on AK as I assume he 3bets JJ/TT to UTG raises more than AK.
I play the hand just like OP and fold to the shove/call.

preflop is pretty meh and 14 is too big, not too small

wots up with the tiny 3betting sizes you want?

$14 seems fine to me, is the norm now less than 3x+caller?

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

preflop is pretty meh and 14 is too big, not too small

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you realize its a squeeze and not a normal 3bet, right?

You're saving yourself money, and leaving yourself room for slightly more postflop play if called.

I would always reraise to 11/12 here. You'll have a slightly higher chance of being called, but that's fine, they will have a weak range and will be pretty easy to play against postflop, especially in position.

You're saving yourself a BB or two every time you raise and have to fold to a 4 bet here if you have trash.

As played though I would fold, you're often drawing to 4 outs to a split pot.

Also, if you do get called and the flop comes, say A or K high, I find that betting ~ $10 into the $25 or so pot is so much better than betting $18. (unless the board is super wet)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

You're saving yourself money, and leaving yourself room for slightly more postflop play if called.

I would always reraise to 11/12 here. You'll have a slightly higher chance of being called, but that's fine, they will have a weak range and will be pretty easy to play against postflop, especially in position.

You're saving yourself a BB or two every time you raise and have to fold to a 4 bet here if you have trash.

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I see your reasoning to squeeze to 11/12, but I suppose you would do it to $14-6 with QQ+, no?
I yes then we would easily be read once villains find that out ...

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

preflop is pretty meh

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Means theres an argument for overcalling, even with the absent of a habitual squeezer behind me?

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Originally Posted by jimmy44

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

You're saving yourself money, and leaving yourself room for slightly more postflop play if called.

I would always reraise to 11/12 here. You'll have a slightly higher chance of being called, but that's fine, they will have a weak range and will be pretty easy to play against postflop, especially in position.

You're saving yourself a BB or two every time you raise and have to fold to a 4 bet here if you have trash.

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I see your reasoning to squeeze to 11/12, but I suppose you would do it to $14-6 with QQ+, no?
I yes then we would easily be read once villains find that out ...

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I wouldn't change my raise size based on my hand here....I want to have a wide a range as possible, and raising different amounts with different hands would narrow down my range, making me easier to play against.

If I decided to raise in this spot I would make it the same amount with my entire range, whether it is QQ/AK or J3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimmy44

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

You're saving yourself money, and leaving yourself room for slightly more postflop play if called.

I would always reraise to 11/12 here. You'll have a slightly higher chance of being called, but that's fine, they will have a weak range and will be pretty easy to play against postflop, especially in position.

You're saving yourself a BB or two every time you raise and have to fold to a 4 bet here if you have trash.

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I see your reasoning to squeeze to 11/12, but I suppose you would do it to $14-6 with QQ+, no?
I yes then we would easily be read once villains find that out ...

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I wouldn't change my raise size based on my hand here....I want to have a wide a range as possible, and raising different amounts with different hands would narrow down my range, making me easier to play against.

If I decided to raise in this spot I would make it the same amount with my entire range, whether it is QQ/AK or J3.

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I agree that raising the same amount is the best.
But then I don't quite understand why would you be squeezing the raiser and the caller here with 11/12 with AA here ... due to the fact that we are IP?