£5/£10 - Deep, gross spot with set vs Ravageur

-This hand was at the end of a very long session with Rav and I on many tables together and deep on several
-Several times he has donk lead into me as the PF raiser on the flops with moderate pairs, knowing I'd have a harder time raising given stack sizees
- One hand (210bb deep) he donk lead into 4 players with K7 on 447 flop and I called as the EP PFR, and he c/r'd me on 4476 board turning K7 into a bluff. So he wasn't afraid to make a move deep
-Everytime he's made some play when we've been deep I've given up on the pot thus far (folding better than him on two occasions (from what he says he had)
-I haven't been getting too out of line post flop all session
-BTN is a solid tagg regular
-CO PFR is aggro and has a wide range pre


£5/£10 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO (£1042.00)
BTN (£1383.00)
Hero (SB) (£2362.87)
Ravageur (£2376.00)

Pre-flop: (£15, 4 players) Hero is SB :2s: :2c:
CO raises to £30, BTN calls £30, Hero calls £25, Ravageur calls £20

Flop: :8h: :3s: :2h: (£120, 4 players)
Hero checks, Ravageur bets £88, 1 fold, BTN raises to £210, Hero raises to £680, Ravageur raises to £2,346, BTN folds, Hero ??

I don't see any reason to 3-bet the flop that big.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

I don't see any reason to 3-bet the flop that big.

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We were all reasonably deep, and I didn't want to give great odds on any draws that might have. Especially given I was OOP to both of them.

What sizing do you prefer?

Well your main concern -- other than what you're going to do when the Raptors lose tonight -- should be denying the button odds to peel with a bare flush draw if Ravageur folds. He has 1143 left in his stack. If you get all-in on the turn with your set vs his flush then he has 2250 equity in a 2914 pot, and he has 8 non board pairing flush outs and 37 non-outs. You should make it X more where X:1107 = 8:37, X = 240. So I'd raise to 450 pounds sterling.

As played I'd fold. I think Ravageur's range is at the most 33, 88, A5hh, A4hh, 54hh, and you don't have odds to gamble against that range.

Edit: the small range has the extra advantage of getting away cheaper if Ravageur shoves because he has a set a lot here IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

Well your main concern -- other than what you're going to do when the Raptors lose tonight --

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Now how can I listen to your advice, when you say something as inaccurate as this!?

For what its worth, I think Ravageur is pretty crazy at times with where he stacks off and how. I'm not sure this is one of those spots or not, and I'm not sure how much weight should be put into that.

For what its worth, he also knows that I think he's crazy.

sure is hard to play when you dont have a balanced range (do you ever lead this flop? do you ever bluff check/reraise ?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

sure is hard to play when you dont have a balanced range (do you ever lead this flop? do you ever bluff check/reraise ?)

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I'd say I lead more often than I c/r in this kind of spot. So my leading range is probably more well balanced. My raising range in this spot though, as played, probably isn't that well balanced.

yea then probably you should have led. also you snap call his shove

God this was such a sicko hand. The fact that BTN claims to have folded the hand he did (i will wait till you post results) simply blew my mind. If i'm playing the hand from your perspective and am thinking rationally I think this is a fold but in the heat of the moment and given how much we battle there is no way in hell I ever fold if i'm you.

Part of the reason why I think it's a fold is because we both know that given how deep we are I'm less likely to gamble with a hand like a4hh when i'm playing on a smaller roll than you.

What a surreal day, I get a kick out of the fact that you made more on the session than I did haha.

out of curiosity, who was the btn?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genitruc

out of curiosity, who was the btn?

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moron, i spoke to him later and he said he didn't actually fold 333. Would be a pretty sick fold.

lol wouldn t moron have a tough time folding 99 here?

I prefer calling the BTN raise (intending to fold to a 3-bet from Rav) over 3b/f.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

I prefer calling the BTN raise (intending to fold to a 3-bet from Rav) over 3b/f.

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I think if I flat buttons 3-bet, rav would be even MORE likely to jam his draws than he would in this spot. If anything I should be MORE likely to call then?

Agree with gabe and as played call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pocketfours

I prefer calling the BTN raise (intending to fold to a 3-bet from Rav) over 3b/f.

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I think if I flat buttons 3-bet, rav would be even MORE likely to jam his draws than he would in this spot. If anything I should be MORE likely to call then?

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I don't think so. Flatting pretty much represents a set and looks very strong. I think he will be less likely to raise and more likely to flat the NFD because he will consider his implied odds very good. He will certainly raise all his sets though.