Am I spewing on the pair+draw here? (50NL)

Villian was 42/7/8.3. A few passive calling stations in play who won't bet so I lead out here hoping to build a pot. I felt like I had to get it in on the turn here. I figured my opponent had some type of top pair hand given his flop raise and his range of limping on the button with T9+ type hands. Anyway here is the hand:

Output for Format: flopturnriver to Copy/Paste From 2009-01-19 20:50:01

FTR Hand History Converter Output (intended for copying and pasting into poker forums!):

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Absolute/UB Cereus No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Absolute/UB Cereus Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($35.83)
Hero (SB) ($50.50)
BB ($27.65)
UTG ($55.42)
UTG+1 ($125.36)
MP1 ($28.32)
MP2 ($19.65)
CO ($50.81)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, CO calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.25, BB checks

Flop: ($2.50) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero bets $1, 3 folds, Button raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($8.50) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $7.25, Hero raises to $20, Button raises to $32.33 (All-In), Hero calls $12.33

River: ($73.16) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $73.16 | Rake: $3.50

there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.

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So I guess the check/shove on turn would give me some fold equity since I haven't really made much of a hand to try and squeeze 'value' out of.

On a side note the jackpot thing is high right now so everyone is playing real loose (lots of fish coming in to try and hit it), I think I might not be adjusting properly when I play my draws fast.

Yes, it's spew. Flat turn.

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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets

Yes, it's spew. Flat turn.

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And then I suppose shove river if flush completes otherwise c/f?
I have to rely on implied odds for the river though, which I don't think is too much of a problem with this guy, but it would be a tough spot if the board paired and gave me the flush.

only 1 card (4s) does that, I wouldn't sweat it for now. And I'd probably go for a smaller vbet that trips/2p will be tempted to call, I mean after flatting the turn you look like exactly what you have, the A high FD.

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.

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So I guess the check/shove on turn would give me some fold equity since I haven't really made much of a hand to try and squeeze 'value' out of.

On a side note the jackpot thing is high right now so everyone is playing real loose (lots of fish coming in to try and hit it), I think I might not be adjusting properly when I play my draws fast.

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fold equity? what better hand do you expect him to fold? a turn check shove would be certainly be a value bet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets

only 1 card (4s) does that, I wouldn't sweat it for now. And I'd probably go for a smaller vbet that trips/2p will be tempted to call, I mean after flatting the turn you look like exactly what you have, the A high FD.

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That's exactly why I hate flatting the turn here oop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

there's no reason to raise the turn unless you are against the biggest of spewtards. also check/shoving would be much better for your range than raising to a smaller amount.

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So I guess the check/shove on turn would give me some fold equity since I haven't really made much of a hand to try and squeeze 'value' out of.

On a side note the jackpot thing is high right now so everyone is playing real loose (lots of fish coming in to try and hit it), I think I might not be adjusting properly when I play my draws fast.

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fold equity? what better hand do you expect him to fold? a turn check shove would be certainly be a value bet

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I suppose the only hands would be AJ-AK. He may have limped AJ and just bluff raised me on the flop to set up a play on the turn, but that's the only hand that would fit that picture as I can't see him limping AQ-AK on the button.
You make a good point about the shove being for value. Plus the shove looks more like a bluff than trying to milk the pot imo, so I guess the opponent may be more likely to stack off here lighter.
What's your opinion on flatting the turn here? (I hate that line since my hand plays face up)

a) a guy with this stats is never folding a strong ace once he hits it on the turn, ever.
b) AJ is a microscopic portion of his range and you are leveling yourself
c) who cares if it's face up, you're against a donk, again you are leveling yourself

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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets

a) a guy with this stats is never folding a strong ace once he hits it on the turn, ever.
b) AJ is a microscopic portion of his range and you are leveling yourself
c) who cares if it's face up, you're against a donk, again you are leveling yourself

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ya true, he's not folding his pair if I hit the flush. how big of a bet would I be looking to check call the river with though if the flush missed since I still have the ace?

not that i necessarily agree with our hand being obvious, but hypothetically it doesnt really matter that our hand is face-up if the other ways to play the hand are really bad. all that it means is that you will have to *gasp* make a read on your opponent on the river if he bets. if you are afraid of this spot then you probably shouldnt be playing poker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

not that i necessarily agree with our hand being obvious, but hypothetically it doesnt really matter that our hand is face-up if the other ways to play the hand are really bad. all that it means is that you will have to *gasp* make a read on your opponent on the river if he bets. if you are afraid of this spot then you probably shouldnt be playing poker.

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It's not that I 'fear' this spot. Check calling the turn and river just seems weak (which is obviously why I took a more aggressive line). Would you say shoving the turn is better than c/c turn, c/c river here though?

If I flat call the turn I'm almost certainly calling the river because if he's trying to bet me out of a flush draw my ace is probably good against that range. The only card I could see c/f'ing to on river if I took the more passive line would be a 10.