FTR Classic Rethread, Week 2

Check out Lukie's List of Exploitable Habits. He asks FTR regs to state one of their habits that thinking opponents could exploit. Great thread since most common leaks are addressed, the kind YOU probably have. Get interesting insights from FTR icons like Rondavu, pgil, DaNutsInYourEye, mcatdog, renton, jackvance, biondino, givememyleg, and pyroxene.

Discussion Points

First, these players weren't saying that regs at 25nl or 50nl were actually exploiting their habits. Just that, if someone knew enough about their game, these tendencies could be exploited. But it's a good way to search for leaks. Try to find a way to exploit you if you were playing you.

1. What "lines" would drive you nuts, get you folding good hands or calling with bad ones? What is the best way to get you to stack off light? What types of boards could someone c/r you off your hand? Whatever, just think about how someone could totally crush you if they knew your tendencies, and then see if it's a leak or problem. The regs at your current level may not do it, yet, but sooner or later, someone will.

2. Did you find a leak listed that "nailed" your current game? If so, whose "old" leak was it? How are you going to fix it? What did they say about fixing it?

3. Do you find any of the exploitable tendencies in the villains you face frequently? If so, which ones? How do you exploit them? How do you recognize the type of player who has that tendency?

Get to work noobs - trust me, this thread is pure gold ready to improve your game with advice from guys who now play at the nosebleeds.

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Originally Posted by Robb

Get to work noobs - trust me

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You aint no professor here :wink:

Great topic again. Where do you pull these threads from?
It really got me to thinking. I'll list the ones that came to me off the bat, but Im going to spend some more time this week really looking into my exploitable leaks.

1> If I post in the CO and am folded to, Im pretty much opening ATC, unless I know the BTN/blinds are loose or 3bet light.

2> I call too many 3bets with PP's with only maybe 10 or 11:1 implieds. I think I tell myself that since they 3bet, they're likely to stack off when I hit.

3> I dont adjust my Cbet sizing enough for board texture in 3bet pots. Not sure how exploitable this is though.

4> I flat too much with small/med PP's in MP. Its not being exploited @ $50NL but Im sure it would be at higher stakes.


Ok then, Im off to find more. The more the merrier imo. Hopefully this thread gets some postage as Im sure theres a ton of leaks common amongst us all.

Robb, thanks for bringing this thread to the attention of us noobs. I read through, but plan to revisit it when I have more time and am less tired/thinking more clearly.

On my first read, I did really notice how my game is constantly changing (hopefully generally for the better), as I'd read a "leak" and think "I used to be real bad about that, but have been doing much better recently". Although I also saw leaks and thought "I've been doing more of that (bad thing) than I used to".

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Originally Posted by OhBollocks

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Originally Posted by Robb

Get to work noobs - trust me

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You aint no professor here :wink:

Great topic again. Where do you pull these threads from?

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I've posted about this before. I just use the FTR search engine. There are a couple of shortcuts I'll share, however.

1. Click on someone's SN, say fnord. You see their profile. There are two "custom search" options: (1) view all fnord's posts and (2) view all fnord topics. Use either option, but for this type of thread search, I've used option 2 and gone through fnord, gmml, mcatdog, spenda and others (I have a backlog right now, so expect weekly Rethreads through the end of March).

2. Click on the old BC numbers. Right now there 191 pages of BC threads. See the top right of each forum home page. In a few minutes, you can scan forward to 2006 or early 2007 and see what topics were discussed. I use number of posts and OP to "guess" what might be good. Wash, rinse, repeat with any strategy forum that interests you: FR, Shorthanded, SNG, MTT, etc. You can find a TON of great stuff.

3. I've only focused on old Beginner's Circle posts, generally because I intend for today's noobies to read them and because they tend to be discussed at a more "noobie-ish" level.

But here's the hard part of research. I read each thread and make notes about it: who responded, why it's good, a particularly poignant post deep in the thread, etc. I try to add value to these threads by digging out ones that actually have helpful and coherent discussions and not just discussions of who's dick is biggest.

The research process helps me really digest ideas and concepts: review the parts that I haven't thought deeply about in a while and learn new things. I wouldn't do it without that selfish motive: the process helps me more than anyone else.

And I know whose dicks are most-discussed on FTR :P

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Originally Posted by OhBollocks

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Originally Posted by Robb

Get to work noobs - trust me

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You aint no professor here :wink:

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Lol, just made me wonder if Robb has ever called a student a noob accidently.

As to the thread, nice find. I'll go through it more and your questions later, but heres something that helped my game. Maybe not necessary for beginners, but as they start to move up it could be worth it.

At some point you need to learn to play against regs. Now most people think of regs as decent players, but you spend a bit of time looking around a site like 2+2 and you should quickly conclude that most regs are just the same droolers who have read some strategy. In short their game could largely be scripted into a bot, because they believe they should always do X in situation Y and they're basically incapable of adjusting. So how do we figure the best way of playing v's them? Well, we know their playbook. Wanna know how a reg will play in a spot? Think about what the standard play would be, thats what they'll do. Almost 100% of the time. So think through the spots where robotic regs will almost always do the same thing then consider how to exploit that. At the same time, you'll be coming up with ways to make your own game less exploitable. Lukie picks the most obvious one right off the bat. Most regs have a c-bet % of 80% or higher. People flop a pair or better like 30% of the time, so 50% of the time they're c-betting air (in fact of the times they c-bet its higher, around 60%?). Think about other conventional wisdom and how to exploit it.

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Originally Posted by Robb

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Originally Posted by OhBollocks

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Originally Posted by Robb

Get to work noobs - trust me

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You aint no professor here :wink:

Great topic again. Where do you pull these threads from?

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I've posted about this before. I just use the FTR search engine. There are a couple of shortcuts I'll share, however.

1. Click on someone's SN, say fnord. You see their profile. There are two "custom search" options: (1) view all fnord's posts and (2) view all fnord topics. Use either option, but for this type of thread search, I've used option 2 and gone through fnord, gmml, mcatdog, spenda and others (I have a backlog right now, so expect weekly Rethreads through the end of March).

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Isn't this the best! :D

This is good stuff, BJ. ISF said much the same thing in a thread I read over the weekend, and it's something I've been thinking about. Not only can we exploit their mindless actions, we can anticipate their mindless actions and act in ways that will baffle them about what we're actually holding. At FT's 50nl FR, most cbet-happy regs will typically check the turn after a cbet gets called (when they're weak). We can use this line with a set on a dry board and sometimes extract more value from a big hand. They'll also call flop raises more than they call turn bets/raises, so it's also often profitable to just pop it up on the flop. But call flop, bet turn behind a check is such a common set line that playing it ourselves may not be as profitable.

c/c donk
or c/c donk donk

Both annoy the crap out of me as i know why and when i use them but i dont get what my opponents are trying to do as it never quite makes sense - and i always feel bad about how i play majority of hands vs this line

Good example. Call flop, bet turn behind a check is a common float bluff line. So in fact betting our set there isnt great, we're hoping he was value betting flop instead of bluffing, but infact we already know he bluffs more than value bets there. Now its read/board texture dependant, but how about we check behind turn and see if he'll decide to fire again on river? Lots of people will read your check behind turn as weakness, maybe a small PP you couldn't fold, maybe a draw you chased, something like that, and decide to push you off. If he does happen to check, well you can still value bet river, but maybe you get to raise him on the river now, and get value from his made hands as well as picking up an extra bet from his bluffs?

Yeah agree Miffed. Sometimes c/c donk is some kind of weird float OOP (floating oop just doesnt work imo), and sometimes its a slowplay OOP. In both cases its like they get to the turn and only realise then that if they check again you could check behind.

I developed some randomization rules for sets about 6 weeks ago that has me c/r'ing and firing a PSB each about 5% of the time. I probably went 100k hands w/o c/r'ing a set, and I always wanted to bet 2/3's of the pot or less on the flop when I bet. So I "forced" some random non-typical lines into my game, just on principal. While I don't know the optimal amount to take these lines w/ sets, I know that never taking them makes me one of the "predictable regs" and that throwing in non-standard set lines HAS to be confusing for opponents, as long as 85% of the time I'm playing lines more likely to "get it all in."

I hate small donk bets. I almost never call them with a strong hand. If I'm calling them, I'm typically either drawing against a station or have a hand that has a pretty good chance of being second best. If I'm raising I'm either willing to get all-in with a big hand or a big draw, or I have total air and can't stand a raise. A thinking player could probably donk small and then bet bigger on a blank turn to make me fold. I recently just called one of these small donk bets with a really strong hand and then my opponent went batshit insane on the turn when I had the nuts, so I definitely need to vary my play more in how I handle small donk bets.

I read in that thread where someone said they never check/raise the river. I almost never check/raise the river because so many people check behind. It seems like the few times that I've tried it against a villain I was sure would bet, they checked. I really need to look for more spots where a river check/raise will be more +EV than betting out.

OOP I'll often c-bet the flop and then check/fold if I miss the board. I've started firing 2 barrels against certain opponents as well as check/calling or check/raising the turn with pretty good hands (and occasionally on bluffs or semi-bluffs), but this is definitely an area I need to work on.

I c-bet sometimes when I know I shouldn't. I'll look at a board and say, "This is a horrible board to c-bet at," and then I go ahead and try it anyways. More generally, I don't check/fold enough as the preflop raiser. That's my pot dammit! :) I also never check a strong hand on a drawish board... I think this is something I should be doing from time to time.

I've been experimenting with varying my postflop bet sizing but I'm sure it's not balanced enough. If someone was paying attention they could likely get some information based on my bet sizing.

I always open the same amount preflop in cash games. I think that varying preflop bet sizes can make a lot of sense depending on the table texture and even on your hand (as long as it's balanced), but this is something I just have paid no attention to. It might not be particularly exploitable, but it's another area that I might not be playing optimally.

And I still don't fold enough.

That's all for now.

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Originally Posted by Robb

Discussion Points

Try to find a way to exploit you if you were playing you.

1. What "lines" would drive you nuts, get you folding good hands or calling with bad ones? What is the best way to get you to stack off light? What types of boards could someone c/r you off your hand? Whatever, just think about how someone could totally crush you if they knew your tendencies, and then see if it's a leak or problem. The regs at your current level may not do it, yet, but sooner or later, someone will.

Lines that drive me nuts: Betting into a monotone board that of course I don't match, I tend to give full flush credit to everyone... Hitting your flush on the river, with a colorful board, becaue I'm too blind to see that there are 3 matching cards on the table.... Shift gears quickly from ultra tight to ultra bluff, I cannot see this... hidden hands from BB are killer towards me... checking two pair on the flop will get me excited, you can usually stack me if I hit top pair there.

2. Did you find a leak listed that "nailed" your current game? If so, whose "old" leak was it? How are you going to fix it? What did they say about fixing it?

Lukies comment about table selection is a leak I have. I tend to take whatever table I can find and stay there, trying to adapt my game rather than look for easy fishing. I am trying to figure out how to fix it honestly. When I am on PS, there are usually 10-15 6max games... they fill so fast that it is often hard to find a table without just having to jump on one... so I tend to look for mid to full buy ins, without any huge stacks at the tables (2xbi or more) and then sit down, play for a while, if the table sucks then I move on, but often I just take the first two or three tables where there is money and an opening... then adapt my game. I will work to figure out a more optimal ratio of players/flop and pot sizing to find ones that suit me better... I think the higher players/flop means looser and higher pots may not necessarily mean better, unless combined with higher players/flop.

I didn't see it on the other thread, but I have a leak with suited connectors, often over valuing the pair they create. I have been working to learn to treat them like small pp and only play them in position, looking for straight and flush value, or two pair. When only hitting one pair (emphasis to stick it in my head... ) I AM THROWING THE HAND AWAY IN THE FACE OF AGGRESSION because that bottom pair is beat!

I have a bad leak too where I can't believe the player has that... and I pay them to see it... very exploitable. I have been working on the thought that '10NL players don't bluff' If they bet like they have the nuts, they have the nuts. Got burned by this three times in the last two-three days... all because I couldn't believe it. And they all had it. This has been a recurring theme in my game though.

3. Do you find any of the exploitable tendencies in the villains you face frequently? If so, which ones? How do you exploit them? How do you recognize the type of player who has that tendency?

Tonight I had a great example of this, I only played for about 1/2 hour but a player sat down at a 6-max 10NL table, bought in for 20bb, posted OOP, I raised in position (he was UTG, I was on the button) everyone folds, he shoves. I call... he turns over 45o. Next hand, he rebuys and posts the bb, shoves to UTG raiser, he turns over Q4o. He settled down after that by buying in larger and actually playing some hands, but I knew he was looking to bully the table as much as possible, I exploited it in position by playing big pairs or broadways that hit the flop against him, putting him in positions where he had to call my shove or fold.

After watching Spoon's video on GS yesterday, I did some exploiting by finding a player who also folded to every 3-bet... well, I only played him through about 4 or 5 orbits but he stayed true to it, I 3 bet him every chance I got, he never called once. I'm not sure what I would have done had he 4bet me (fold obviously).

As toward exploiting other leaks, I'm not really that good at hand reading yet, so I find it hard to really exploit a player unless I have seen an obviously bad leak in their game, then often the rest of the table has an idea of it and is already working on it... making it harder to be the one who exploits it... but I'm learning... I think.

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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy

I c-bet sometimes when I know I shouldn't. I'll look at a board and say, "This is a horrible board to c-bet at," and then I go ahead and try it anyways. More generally, I don't check/fold enough as the preflop raiser. That's my pot dammit! :) I also never check a strong hand on a drawish board... I think this is something I should be doing from time to time.

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This is something I have been working hard on. I tend to C-bet too much, and have cut it way down, especially on drawy boards or high card boards where I hit my set... I have started checking this when first to act, trying to give the intiative away, rather than rush to get the money in and scare them away... I want that hand in there... but this has met with mixed success. I think this works to check/call a lot of the time, but the problem often is the other player then shuts down on you. I'm struggling with the correct way to handle these situations, so maybe this little note hasn't really helped at all...

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Originally Posted by Monty3038

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Originally Posted by Robb

Discussion Points

Try to find a way to exploit you if you were playing you.

1. What "lines" would drive you nuts, get you folding good hands or calling with bad ones? What is the best way to get you to stack off light? What types of boards could someone c/r you off your hand? Whatever, just think about how someone could totally crush you if they knew your tendencies, and then see if it's a leak or problem. The regs at your current level may not do it, yet, but sooner or later, someone will.

Lines that drive me nuts: Betting into a monotone board that of course I don't match, I tend to give full flush credit to everyone... Hitting your flush on the river, with a colorful board, becaue I'm too blind to see that there are 3 matching cards on the table.... Shift gears quickly from ultra tight to ultra bluff, I cannot see this... hidden hands from BB are killer towards me... checking two pair on the flop will get me excited, you can usually stack me if I hit top pair there.

2. Did you find a leak listed that "nailed" your current game? If so, whose "old" leak was it? How are you going to fix it? What did they say about fixing it?

Lukies comment about table selection is a leak I have. I tend to take whatever table I can find and stay there, trying to adapt my game rather than look for easy fishing. I am trying to figure out how to fix it honestly. When I am on PS, there are usually 10-15 6max games... they fill so fast that it is often hard to find a table without just having to jump on one... so I tend to look for mid to full buy ins, without any huge stacks at the tables (2xbi or more) and then sit down, play for a while, if the table sucks then I move on, but often I just take the first two or three tables where there is money and an opening... then adapt my game. I will work to figure out a more optimal ratio of players/flop and pot sizing to find ones that suit me better... I think the higher players/flop means looser and higher pots may not necessarily mean better, unless combined with higher players/flop.

I didn't see it on the other thread, but I have a leak with suited connectors, often over valuing the pair they create. I have been working to learn to treat them like small pp and only play them in position, looking for straight and flush value, or two pair. When only hitting one pair (emphasis to stick it in my head... ) I AM THROWING THE HAND AWAY IN THE FACE OF AGGRESSION because that bottom pair is beat!

I have a bad leak too where I can't believe the player has that... and I pay them to see it... very exploitable. I have been working on the thought that '10NL players don't bluff' If they bet like they have the nuts, they have the nuts. Got burned by this three times in the last two-three days... all because I couldn't believe it. And they all had it. This has been a recurring theme in my game though.

3. Do you find any of the exploitable tendencies in the villains you face frequently? If so, which ones? How do you exploit them? How do you recognize the type of player who has that tendency?

Tonight I had a great example of this, I only played for about 1/2 hour but a player sat down at a 6-max 10NL table, bought in for 20bb, posted OOP, I raised in position (he was UTG, I was on the button) everyone folds, he shoves. I call... he turns over 45o. Next hand, he rebuys and posts the bb, shoves to UTG raiser, he turns over Q4o. He settled down after that by buying in larger and actually playing some hands, but I knew he was looking to bully the table as much as possible, I exploited it in position by playing big pairs or broadways that hit the flop against him, putting him in positions where he had to call my shove or fold.

After watching Spoon's video on GS yesterday, I did some exploiting by finding a player who also folded to every 3-bet... well, I only played him through about 4 or 5 orbits but he stayed true to it, I 3 bet him every chance I got, he never called once. I'm not sure what I would have done had he 4bet me (fold obviously).

As toward exploiting other leaks, I'm not really that good at hand reading yet, so I find it hard to really exploit a player unless I have seen an obviously bad leak in their game, then often the rest of the table has an idea of it and is already working on it... making it harder to be the one who exploits it... but I'm learning... I think.

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One big one I just thought of based on poster above (sorry, not sure which one and too lazy to scroll back up.. ) but something that really burns my ass is slowplay of sets by players with poor stats. Like they suddenly woke up and hey, I have a set, now I need to extract value... and they get a lot of value out of slowplaying me... I seem impervious to being able to find the slowplay and defend against it.

Loose passive donk-feesh with sets are a pain in the arse.

Great original thread, great rethread.

- If I Flat your PF raise, 9 times out of ten I am set mining a smaller pp.
- If I 3bet you PF I have QQ - AA. Very occasionally when I have position AKs.
- If you raise PF and get a couple of callers before the action gets to me my 3bet range shrinks to KK - AA.
- If you raise my cbet I will always fold. I can't stomach playing on on a missed flop with AK etc, I never know where I am. Although I think this is often sensible play on my part and often keeps me out of horrible situations, I think it would probably be +ev for any villain who knew this to raise me on every single flop, as I'm so weaktight in these situations they will always get a fold out of me when I miss.
- I don't make good enough use of the button.
- I HATE fish slowplaying sets, it really tilts me which means I get scared and play too tight. Say I flop TPTK, I will try to bet 3 streets of value. Any villain who knew about this leak could LITERALLY take 90% of pots away from me with complete air by c/c c/c b. I will always assume he flopped the set. Although again I'm sure this saves me money in many situations, it would also be absurdly exploitable.
- In relation to the last one if I have tptk OOP and I get my value bets called on the flop and the turn I often don't have the bottle to fire again into the river. So I'll check and often either get a weaker hand gratefull check behind or get bet into. And I'm sure a few of those bets will be steals, not vbets with slow played monsters.
- I hate shoving on the flop or turn in marginal situations. I post a lot of hands where people say "easy shove turn" and I'm like "HUH!? But I only have tptk and he MUST have a set / flopped a flush" etc etc.
- I suck at poker.

More to come no doubt!

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Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat

- If I 3bet you PF I have QQ - AA. Very occasionally when I have position AKs.

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Ok, as you can tell by my posts above, I'm no pro here, but I have been grinding my way up through 10NL... I will say this used to be my style also, but I've added in more hands, 3-betting (watch your 3-bet amounts too) wider and having pretty good results. Position here is incredibly important... anyone else in a similar mode?

I've been 3-betting like a monkey lately when a preflop raiser's positionally-adjusted opening range is greater than 25%. 25%+ and I'm light 3-betting with Axs. 30%+ and I'm adding in Kxs and SCs. 40%+ and I'm adding in suited 2-gappers and Qxs. It also relies heavily on how often they fold to 3-bets, of course.

So far it's working out pretty well. Seeing people talk about 3-betting only QQ+ and AKs makes me chuckle, but then again I've been playing 6-max, so that makes a big difference as well.

At 10nl, most regs have NO IDEA how to deal with 3bets and tend to raise w/ AK and KK+, call w/ pp's < KK, and lay down most stuff. They also tend to be weak tight post flop in big pots, so they play their cards face up. You can make a ton 3betting for value and 3betting light at 10nl, if you really know what you're doing.

Cuz they don't.

Gets a bit more complicated at 25nl+ imo.

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Originally Posted by Robb

At 10nl, most regs have NO IDEA how to deal with 3bets and tend to raise w/ AK and KK+, call w/ pp's < KK, and lay down most stuff. They also tend to be weak tight post flop in big pots, so they play their cards face up. You can make a ton 3betting for value and 3betting light at 10nl, if you really know what you're doing.

Cuz they don't.

Gets a bit more complicated at 50nl+ imo.

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FYP

OK cool. I shall widen my range for 3 betting IP.

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Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat

OK cool. I shall widen my range for 3 betting IP.

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Do it slowly, imo. I started out 3betting only QQ+ and AK at first. I added JJ and TT. Then AQs. Then you aren't always betting for value, so you have to start making reads. Then you get more comfortable playing big pot poker and can work on 3betting Axs in the right spots, or some other "light 3bet" hands. Don't widen from 2% to 7% 3bettin over night.

whoooooooooooooa

widen it correctly, flatting TT/JJ can be much more profitable than 3betting. A lot of it depends on a few factors:

1. How bad our opponents are
2. Their range for continuing against a 3bet when OOP

Wow...

Think about WHY you're 3-betting and then think about ranges.

Disregard my post. If spenda and BJ think I'm crazy, I'm gonna do a lot of thinking on this myself.

I SAID, Ben, back in September, that I had trouble w/ 3betting :P, but you pointed (correctly) that there were probably OTHER leaks I could more profitably address. So I did. And you were right. But here were are, back to 3betting. I seem not to understand the FTR "party line" on 3betting. I do it a good bit, and my stats show profit, but it's harder to know when you're not maximizing profits than it is to know if something is +EV based on stats.

So I'll quit dishing out bad advice on 3betting for the near term and try to work out some ranges, etc. Thanks, guys.

3bet like a monkey for a while. Axs and Kxs. It's all I can say. The only way to know whether or not it's +EV is if you try it. I'm pretty sure it is.

Make sure you're picking on players with a high % to raise, including a high ATSB in the blind or a high PFR otherwise.

Briefly, 3-betting falls into 2 ranges, value and bluffs. Your value range needs to be ahead of your opponents 3-bet calling range. Whats the point of 3-betting TT if your opponent only calls with JJ+? What the point of 3-betting AQ if your opponent folds AJ?

What do we 3bet for?

To build a pot with our good hands?
To make other players fold their good/better hands?
To create an image?

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Briefly, 3-betting falls into 2 ranges, value and bluffs. Your value range needs to be ahead of your opponents 3-bet calling range. Whats the point of 3-betting TT if your opponent only calls with JJ+? What the point of 3-betting AQ if your opponent folds AJ?

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Who folds JJ+ to a 3bet?

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Originally Posted by WillburForce

What do we 3bet for?

To build a pot with our good hands?
To make other players fold their good/better hands?
To create an image?

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I 3bet for many reasons. To tighten up that LAG to my right and take easy money off of him. To fold out that weak tight who will think I have to have AA every time I 3bet. To pick on the robots playing 500 tables at once. Because my hand is too strong to fold and too weak to call.

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

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Originally Posted by bjsaust

Briefly, 3-betting falls into 2 ranges, value and bluffs. Your value range needs to be ahead of your opponents 3-bet calling range. Whats the point of 3-betting TT if your opponent only calls with JJ+? What the point of 3-betting AQ if your opponent folds AJ?

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Who folds JJ+ to a 3bet?

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Who said anyone folds JJ+ to a 3-bet? Please read again.

if we're sure our opponents only call a 3bet with JJ+ then we 3bet the f*ck out of them till they wise up....

I thought about it while running just now, and I glanced over Ben's post and the others. But here are my thoughts from my jog (other than THESE HILLS REALLY F**KIN SUCK!!).

Consider Hero 3betting JJ/TT against someone whose PFR ~ 15.

Case 1: Villain folds worst 10%, 4bets top 2% and flats the rest.

Case 2: Villain folds only worst 5%, 4bets top 2% and flats the rest.

Hero can value 3bet in case 2 (though it's still uncertain that whether he is better off flatting), because he's ahead of villain's call-3bet range. In case 1, he's just folding out all the hands he'd like to play JJ/TT against, i.e. helping villain play correctly against his range. I think there are a lot of Case 2 players at 10nl, who allow you to build a big pot with JJ/TT while they have 55 - JJ, KQ, and AT - AQ. I will be thinking about the correct ranges and when to 3bet and when to flat at 50nl later today.

Two more things I realized while running.

1. This is a great example of how badly you can suck and still pwn 10nl at 8 ptBB/100. You can have these mile-wide misapprehensions and actually win big with them.
2. I really did follow Ben's advice to not worry at all about small edges while there were gaping holes in my game. LoL, Dr. Ben, someone followed your prescription to the letter.

I just watched a GrinderSchool video where bigspenda folded JJ to a 3bet, and I have to agree with him that it was the correct play.

I read it somewhere else, but our aggressiveness is not measured by how much we raise or how much we 3bet, but instead by how much our opponents 3bet us.

You're getting what others miss Robb, its all to do with ranges man. Productive jog that!

Can I add to the conversation that you all now have me completely confused. I'm going to have to re-read all of this again and try to make sense of it, bet/call/don't bet/bet now not then... a lot of advice in here... trying to sort it out logically has somehow gone off the rails for me.

My biggest sticking point is against villains that call because I get no information. But not only do I get no information, I also become paranoid that they have a set or have some weird hand that flopped the nuts rather than chasing.

I tend to throw away TPTK instead of getting my money in more. I need to work on this - I can handle those who bet big or raise, but callers who check first and then call really screw me over..

Especially when the turn comes and they check again and I don't see any draws on the board. Perhaps I should examine my preflop game a little closer.

LOL... it's kind of funny to go back and read some of my comments here, because I don't remember half of them. Um... yeah, a bit drunk. So maybe disregard what I said between my 2nd post in the thread and this one :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat

Great original thread, great rethread.

- If I Flat your PF raise, 9 times out of ten I am set mining a smaller pp.
- If I 3bet you PF I have QQ - AA. Very occasionally when I have position AKs.
- If you raise PF and get a couple of callers before the action gets to me my 3bet range shrinks to KK - AA.
- If you raise my cbet I will always fold. I can't stomach playing on on a missed flop with AK etc, I never know where I am. Although I think this is often sensible play on my part and often keeps me out of horrible situations, I think it would probably be +ev for any villain who knew this to raise me on every single flop, as I'm so weaktight in these situations they will always get a fold out of me when I miss.
- I don't make good enough use of the button.
- I HATE fish slowplaying sets, it really tilts me which means I get scared and play too tight. Say I flop TPTK, I will try to bet 3 streets of value. Any villain who knew about this leak could LITERALLY take 90% of pots away from me with complete air by c/c c/c b. I will always assume he flopped the set. Although again I'm sure this saves me money in many situations, it would also be absurdly exploitable.
- In relation to the last one if I have tptk OOP and I get my value bets called on the flop and the turn I often don't have the bottle to fire again into the river. So I'll check and often either get a weaker hand gratefull check behind or get bet into. And I'm sure a few of those bets will be steals, not vbets with slow played monsters.
- I hate shoving on the flop or turn in marginal situations. I post a lot of hands where people say "easy shove turn" and I'm like "HUH!? But I only have tptk and he MUST have a set / flopped a flush" etc etc.
- I suck at poker.

More to come no doubt!

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Holy shit. I started writing mine down to organize them. Then I started reading. Out of the 9 you posted I have 8. I don't have "I suck at poker" because why state the obvious.
I do wonder if I could beat me.
I have to think some on how to exploit these...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy

I just watched a GrinderSchool video where bigspenda folded JJ to a 3bet

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lolNIT

but yea, I think in one video at 25nl FR I got like 50bb effective stacks in like 3 times with Jacks and was behind every time. Therefore I just adjusted my stacking off range for that game.

Our aggression is not measured in how much we call, but how much we raise/bet or fold. Folding a lot makes us more aggressive than calling a lot, if that makes sense.