50nl QQ....AI?

I'm in a vaccum, sorta. I'm imagining that he's kind of a nit, though. It was his second hand in 17 hands. I just don't know how to react to his flop check, so i took the passive route. (leak?) I'd planned to shove over any turn aggression --or-- raise to his check/ call shove --or-- set up for the river shove on a safe card. I'm not sure if this is correct in a small-ish vaccum considering his 4-bet.

Should I be looking for a cheap showdown?

I've really been struggling in 3 and 4 bet pots at 50nl. Any general advice on the types of players I should 3bet, and when to 3bet them? (i.e. what type of stats should I target?)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($64.90)
Hero (CO) ($50.80)
Button ($40.05)
SB ($46.35)
BB ($47.75)
UTG ($52.05)
UTG+1 ($50.70)
MP1 ($19)
MP2 ($84.20)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
4 folds, MP3 raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.75, 3 folds, MP3 raises to $8, Hero calls $3.25

Flop: ($16.75) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($16.75) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP3 bets $10.50, Hero raises to $42.80 (All-In), MP3 calls $32.30

River: ($102.35) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $102.35 | Rake: $3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Im_new

I'm imagining that he's kind of a nit, though.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Im_new

Preflop: Hero is CO with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
4 folds, MP3 raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.75

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Does not compute...

So noobsause, what hands are you hoping to get value from with your turn shove?

Also, flat pre, bet flop, flat turn

I try to get to showdown cheaply against a nit that 4bet pre when I have a big overpair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets

Also, flat pre, bet flop, flat turn

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flop is fine imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Im_new

I'm imagining that he's kind of a nit, though.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Im_new

Preflop: Hero is CO with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
4 folds, MP3 raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.75

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Does not compute...

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Agreed, but its only been 17 hands. Either way, flating is probably the better option if I even feel (without def proof) that he's a nit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets

So noobsause, what hands are you hoping to get value from with your turn shove?

Also, flat pre, bet flop, flat turn

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Hell if I know... Its a very retarded thought process in retrospect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by badgers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets

Also, flat pre, bet flop, flat turn

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flop is fine imo

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flop is the only good street imo.

First off, 3betting a suspected nits with QQ, only to call his 4bet which is very likely not a bluff is bad imo. And if you were to bet the flop here when his range is like KK+, AK that would also be bad. So flop is an easy check behind. And as played, turn shove is bad imo. He likely doesn't have TT, JJ (as most FR players wouldn't 4bet those hands, so certainly not a suspected nit). So a shove is only getting called by KK, AA, and folds out his AK that you beat.

o i didnt notice that he 4bet, yeah check flop

Guys: 17 hands is no indication of anything. I've gone both 0/0 and 60/40 in under 20 hands. Against an unknown 3betting preflop is best and betting flop is best and I don't think it's that close.

I'm with Dean here, you can put too much emphasis on stats. In the last couple days I've seen people with 0 and 1.5% 3-bet stats over 150+ hands stack off with AQo and TT respectively.

I definitely agree that 17 hands isn't any kind of sample at all. But if you do suspect someone is a nit (and have more information to back it up), then this is played badly.

I agree against an unknown a 3bet is fine. However:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dean

and betting flop is best

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Are you talking as played with villain 4betting you want to bet this flop? Or if villain would have just flatted the 3bet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deanglow

Guys: 17 hands is no indication of anything. I've gone both 0/0 and 60/40 in under 20 hands. Against an unknown 3betting preflop is best and betting flop is best and I don't think it's that close.

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Well then, when he 4bets, are your two options shove and fold?

no because we have setmining odds, folding is horrible after the min 4bet.

Missed that it was a min bet. :oops: What if it was standard 4bet?

a standard 4bet I would almost never 3bet/fold QQ against (there may be some exception like someone who rarely folds to 3bets and very rarely 4bets, I guess there are always exceptions to rules in poker, but I think it's very rare...) The point is you should make your plan about whether you are stacking off or not before the 3bet.

edit: I just completely answered the wrong question!

yeah calling 4bets is weird and I don't really ever do it, I'd probably only do it with AA or KK against a spewtard but then if they're that spewy theyll probably stack off anyway preflop so I just never really do it..

But then nutsinho's location a while ago was "calling your 4bets, making you tilt" I think, so maybe I'm levels behind on this one.

edit 2 : Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt.

Raising the turn is kinda bad.

If he's got a worse hand let him fire away on the river.