Otter Strategy and sharing.

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02-10-2009, 09:40 PM
Otter_Brothface

Otter Strategy and sharing.

I feel I need to further explain thinking and aims behind some of Otter strategy as it does not seem to be taken seriously here. In exchange I think we should all post our own methods or maybe just plays we like to make at holdem.

Otter Stategy the 4 main points.

1. Make large raises to defend blinds against loose guys that raise lots. If blind is $1 and raise $4 use $25 - $45

2. Bet all flops when you raised before cos if they don't have anything they won't be able to call - (the other player will miss the flop over 60% of the time) :D

3. Dont play small cards because you can get this money back later - think of each small cards you fold as 4bb and next time you are dealt the king or queen hands raise it however many small cards you folded before.

4. Dont bet when the pot is already very big unless you have the nuts hand. If you are ahead you have won enough and if behind you have lost too much already most likely.
02-10-2009, 10:03 PM
kb coolman

Pretty much every reg on this site would peg your strategy and have your stack in about an hour. It's ridiculously exploitable.

1) Having a strategy to defend the blinds is stupid. Re-raising to 25BB OOP without consideration for you oppoant with anything but KK+ is retarded.

2) You just gave me awesome equity to call you down with mid-pair on the flop, 'cause you c-bet everything. You don't think I know you miss 60% of the flops, too?

3) Ok, so you read a chart. EDIT. Don't count rags as anything. Fold them. Play strond hands from position, and play them for value. You won't get any value opening for 20BB.

4) This is crazy wrong. You want to build a big pot when you have good equity against opponent ranges. Against some opponents, AI on the flop with AA is a gold mine. Against others, you're contributing to the ecomomy.

You need to learn to think beyond a cookie cutter strategy.
02-10-2009, 10:33 PM
Sl4y3r

Otter are you serious? do you plan on improving your game? are you here to learn or share your quite amusing stratagies? Please for your sake read all the topics in 'Learning starts here' thread.....step one for me was realising how bad i play poker :wink:
02-10-2009, 10:53 PM
Airles™

I'm probably one of the worst players here and I would gladly sit down at a $1/2 table with this dude. This has to be a joke account.
02-10-2009, 11:02 PM
jyms

I love guys that defend blinds at No limit. Nothing like putting 100BB's in the middle to save 1

A lot of players here should be able to learn something very valuable from the OP's post though. Are we getting an idea of how our bd Opponents think?
02-10-2009, 11:52 PM
lilking26

Poker Strategy

There is no real strategy to playing poker but your own u have to develop your own strategy in poker & as u perfect it u will see what needs to be called & what to lay down I for 1 have layed down pocket kings & aces do to the odds that they will get cracked 80% of the time people who think that having a large pocket pair are fooling themselves there are so many odds to poker playing it's sick. Most say poker is all luck no it's the way u play your hand I have bluffed out many a hand do to the fact that the hands that I showdown are quality so it gets in the minds of a player that he must have something and they fold no matter what table u play at whether it be low or high stakes and online is a different story people play whatever or feel let me go all in and wish and expect people to see them as a legitimate poker player & not a rookie. I for 1 play with many poker hands whether they be low cards or high cards guts is another factor as for em I am a chaser and am willing to bet a stack to chase or call a stack to win I have played for 20 yrs now and have had great success in my own game there is no 1 way to play teh game so find what works for u & run with it so many people think they are pros & learn from the pros they don't even think they are pros they always say they are strategists so if u think u know it all go back think again read another poker book & see what real poker is about learn every kind of game u can it will help u in the long run.
02-10-2009, 11:56 PM
daven

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyms

I love guys that defend blinds at No limit. Nothing like putting 100BB's in the middle to save 1

i defend blinds sometimes. I put $$ in the middle to win $$, not to save 1bb...

or, more accurately, I play aggressively against steal situations from the blinds when that is the best way to maximise value when i am ahead of their range, or with reads that they will fold enough of their range for it to be +EV to 3-bet a wide range here.
02-11-2009, 02:35 AM

Re: Otter Strategy and sharing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter_Brothface

I feel I need to further explain thinking and aims behind some of Otter strategy as it does not seem to be taken seriously here. In exchange I think we should all post our own methods or maybe just plays we like to make at holdem.

Otter Stategy the 4 main points.

1. Make large raises to defend blinds against loose guys that raise lots. If blind is $1 and raise $4 use $25 - $45

2. Bet all flops when you raised before cos if they don't have anything they won't be able to call - (the other player will miss the flop over 60% of the time) :D

3. Dont play small cards because you can get this money back later - think of each small cards you fold as 4bb and next time you are dealt the king or queen hands raise it however many small cards you folded before.

4. Dont bet when the pot is already very big unless you have the nuts hand. If you are ahead you have won enough and if behind you have lost too much already most likely.

1. Cool, so what if I have a hand and go all in? You just lost $45 with K9 without seeing a flop.
2. OK, say my strategy is to call all flops because I know you're betting all of them. Then what do you do, bet every turn?
3. I'd rather have 89s than K9o
4. OK, so you're never betting unless you have it when the pot is big, got it. So when you have the nuts you'll bet and I'll always fold because I know you'll never bet a worse hand than close to the nuts. So when you have the nuts you'll never ever get paid in a big pot.
02-11-2009, 03:22 AM
Kijjo

lilking 26:

Quote:

I for 1 have layed down pocket kings & aces do to the odds that they will get cracked 80% of the time

the other day I read someone else posting that AA got beat 1/3 of the time.
where do people come up with this junk?
AA vs. random hand - 85% to win
AA vs. smaller pair - 80%
AA vs. 3 random hands in the same pot - 61% to win

Heck, I tried to create a scenario where AA would lose more than 50% of the time and you can't without using more than 4 opponents - even giving your opponents suited connectors and the other aces.
02-11-2009, 04:32 AM
chrisa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airles™

I'm probably one of the worst players here and I would gladly sit down at a $1/2 table with this dude. This has to be a joke account.

I'm tempted to as well. :P

Do you play on Full Tilt Otter?
02-11-2009, 04:44 AM
dev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijjo

Heck, I tried to create a scenario where AA would lose more than 50% of the time and you can't without using more than 4 opponents - even giving your opponents suited connectors and the other aces.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,086,008 games 0.003 secs 362,002,666 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.069% 48.99% 00.08% 532075 820.00 { AcAd }
Hand 1: 22.561% 22.49% 00.08% 244192 820.00 { 9s8s }
Hand 2: 12.370% 12.29% 00.08% 133518 820.00 { 2c2d }
Hand 3: 16.000% 15.92% 00.08% 172943 820.00 { 3c3h }

gotcha!
02-11-2009, 07:00 AM
Stacks

oh dat otter strategy...
02-11-2009, 10:42 AM
lilking26

My Thoughts If U Don't Like Them Cry 2 Tears In Bucket F It

So as a reply there are to many odds to cracking pocket aces as is any other pair u only have 2 other outs to really make your hand unstoppable and with the rate of players online the odds go way down due to the fact that a person will call with suited connectors or any 2 random cards that could complete a straight, flush, 2 pair or just catch 1 of there other cards to give them trips to man variables out there so that is why I play aces all in if I loose it's cause someone had the guts to call & see what happened. Now live your odds are about right with pocket aces it's all do to strategy(reading the player, the flop & the will of a player to actual chase the had they want) I for instance am a chaser I will chase a hand if the odds are right & I myself have cracked aces numerous time online & live. After a bad beat u always hear u called with that damn rookie plus whatever else the looser wants to say to try and defend his bad beat but it goes to show nothing is full proof and a hand is a hand my online play is way different than my live play but online I incorporate both & now I am doing so with live with all the online players that are trying to make it big in live games. Just teh other day I took $500 off of an online player that never played live but thought he was a poker pro we sat at the table I called his hands busted him he started saying the same BS that on liners always say U suck etc.......... and at the end of his ranting I told him go read a poker book learn to play the real game & that no 1 is ever a master at poker but u can have a good strategy at playing your own game he said FU and I told him come back when he has more money so live & online are 2 different entities and should be treated as such for anyone that disagrees I give the same advice go read a poker book learn what your flaws are and learn to defend those flaws more often than not its worth laying down a good starting hand to end up winning more in the end.
02-11-2009, 10:51 AM
amifat

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

oh dat otter strategy...

bumps need to know more about tis winnah stratergy!
02-11-2009, 10:57 AM
Sir Pawnalot

I have a question about Otter strategy. How can point 2 and 4 both be true?

I am trying to learn the basics, but I can not seem to understand it. Point 4 seems to negate point 2, especially since you recommend raising 25-45 BB against stealers.

"2. Bet all flops when you raised before cos if they don't have anything they won't be able to call - (the other player will miss the flop over 60% of the time) Very Happy"

"4. Dont bet when the pot is already very big unless you have the nuts hand. If you are ahead you have won enough and if behind you have lost too much already most likely."

I want to learn some more of your more advanced poker strategies, but first you need to elaborate on your points so that they are logically consistent.
02-11-2009, 11:10 AM
lilking26

Fuck What U Heard It's All About What U know
02-11-2009, 11:26 AM
2ndline.4thstreet

Part of me wants to fold every time I have AA and I'm facing an all in raise. But 90% of the time I call. I would say that I get cracked 20% of the time, but somehow those are the only hands I really remember.
02-11-2009, 11:34 AM
Stacks

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndline.4thstreet

would say that I get cracked 20% of the time

I'd say this is about right.
02-11-2009, 11:53 AM
davekp2003

I'm still a pretty inexperienced player and trying to build up my bankroll, and play mostly at the $10nl tables. I've been finding recently that many players are re-raising from $2 to all-in a lot of the time many times with air. Anyone else seeing that? My strategy there is just wait em out and call with AA-JJ or AK, AQ even AJs.
02-11-2009, 12:56 PM
Otter_Brothface

What I meant to say before was that you should always bet the flop if you have just raised normally to maybe 4 or 5 bbs before the flop. However, when the pot has been re-raised before the flop comes out then it is already very big. In this case you don't need to bet to make him fold because he more likely has a hand and the pot is really big anyway.

The only excpetion to this is when we miss the flop in full. In this case we can bet 10% - 15% of the pot to try and make him fold sicne we probably wont win the hand if we do not bet.

If our hand has any potnential or is strong we never bet in the big pots unless it is the nuts hand. In small pots we must always bet so he can't bluff of or win with ace high or something when we have a king or queen hand.
02-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Sir Pawnalot

The importance of having initiative pre flop is debatable. Yet-, in my experience- initiative buys you FE on post flop streets. This is especially the case when high cards flops.

Sometimes we end up repping villains hand, but that is rare. If a K drops on flop, there is less chance of someone having that K. By representing strong over one, two- or three streets, we are assured of folding out any hand weaker than a K.

This can be applied with great success against weak players.

But you need to realize that players at 100 NL will adjust to your game and playing like you suggest in point 1, 2, 3 and 4 can be exploited.

How do you think someone could counter you and how would you readjust?
02-11-2009, 03:14 PM
LawDude

If I can say something philosophical about this, I think Otter's approach shows the limits of simplistic poker "strategy".

There isn't a one-size-fits-all "strategy" that will beat all poker opponents (or even all fish) because poker players (including fish) aren't one-size-fits-all.

Otter's strategy of c-betting every flop after a pre-flop raise, for example, might work very well against players who will call with anything pre-flop and routinely fold to post-flop aggression. And if Otter finds a website and stakes level that is full of tables full of such players, he may even turn a healthy and consistent profit doing it.

But, as others have pointed out, good players will realize that is what he is doing (either through computer statistics or simple observation) and will start calling or raising his c-bets and making him fold or play poker on the later streets with inferior cards. And interestingly, even bad players may be able to collect off Otter by simply staying out of pots until they draw good cards pre-flop, and then calling or raising Otter when they hit the flop.

The point is that that there is no inflexible poker strategy that will work consistently. What you are doing out there better depend on what other players at the table are doing, and your informed reads about how they will react to your actions. Yes, we can make generalizations about how to play in certain situations that often arise, but in the end, if you aren't tailoring your approach to the tendencies of the other players at the table, you aren't going to win at poker.