KK as over pair OOP

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02-23-2009, 03:26 PM
Im_new

KK as over pair OOP

I'm having trouble reading my over pairs versus players like this. Here is the same hand a few different ways. I'm trying to understand how this hand plays against villain's button range. I can't wrap my mind around just how tight 14/9, 16/11, and 20/14 type players are. I find it very hard to differentiate between them.

Villain is 14/9

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($31.05)
Hero (MP2) ($44)
MP3 ($22.70)
CO ($28.40)
Button ($25)
SB ($6.70)
BB ($31.40)
UTG ($6.25)
UTG+1 ($20.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
3 folds, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, Button calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.35) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.70, Button calls $1.70

Turn: ($5.75) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets 4.75 (?)

-----OR------

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($31.05)
Hero (MP2) ($44)
MP3 ($22.70)
CO ($28.40)
Button ($25)
SB ($6.70)
BB ($31.40)
UTG ($6.25)
UTG+1 ($20.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
3 folds, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, Button calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.35) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.70, Button calls $1.70

Turn: ($5.75) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $4.95, Hero raises to $20.00 (?)

---------OR---------

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($31.05)
Hero (MP2) ($44)
MP3 ($22.70)
CO ($28.40)
Button ($25)
SB ($6.70)
BB ($31.40)
UTG ($6.25)
UTG+1 ($20.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
3 folds, Hero bets $1, 2 folds, Button calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.35) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.70, Button calls $1.70

Turn: ($5.75) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $4.95, Hero calls

I think its between the first and third options. Either lead the turn or check call.

What's your plan if he shoves?
What's the plan for the river
02-23-2009, 07:24 PM
Deanglow

I bet the turn with all hands except maybe 77-1010
02-23-2009, 09:05 PM
Im_new

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

I bet the turn with all hands except maybe 77-1010

why? Is it because of the flop's dry texture?

I tend to give too much credit to these types of boards when villain only calls the flop. I always prematurely put them on a set or two pair. I do this especially when villain is some type of nit. Its a leak, and I'm not sure how to plug it.
02-24-2009, 07:15 PM
mixchange

Re: KK as over pair OOP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Im_new

I'm having trouble reading my over pairs versus players like this. Here is the same hand a few different ways. I'm trying to understand how this hand plays against villain's button range. I can't wrap my mind around just how tight 14/9, 16/11, and 20/14 type players are. I find it very hard to differentiate between them.

You are getting too tangled up right now in the face meaning of VPIP/PFR stats. you have 14/9s, 16/11, 20/14 etc. who 3bet light, never 3bet, felt AK pre and dont, play postflop passive and dont, etc.

I reccomend dropping tables to say 6 if you are doing more, less if you play about that now, turning off HUD and just paying attention to each play at the table.

You learn more about players in how they play hands then just on their vpip. then turn HUD back on and throw in some other stats like fold to cbet, cbet %, 3b % and fold to 3b%

anyway you probably know what i said above already but you haven't been practicing it. Think less about the stats and more about how the player has been playing his hands in the sessions you've played with him.

you may also not be thinking positionally aware enough. .e.g hand 1 button's range is quite wide in this spot usually. There's also positional VPIP stats you can check for help

Quote:

I think its between the first and third options. Either lead the turn or check call.

What's your plan if he shoves?
What's the plan for the river

Hand 1

bet turn, fold to raise

think about what hands you are ahead of and what hands you are behind.

now think how to play the best against these hands... why are we even considering a c/r turn? everyhting we're ahead of except some draws folds and everything we're behind shoves on us.

check calling sucks because we now can't really lead river for value, and we're kinda stuck in the dark if he makes a big river bet ... and he can check behind some draws, or pair+draws