AQ played passive in the blind

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03-01-2009, 09:41 PM

AQ played passive in the blind

I felt pretty meh about this hand... do we think this is ok?

EDIT: villain 15/10/3.5 28% steal over 300 hands

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($48.35)
Button ($27.80)
Hero (SB) ($112.50)
BB ($110.30)
UTG ($100)
MP1 ($20.50)
MP2 ($65.45)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
3 folds, CO bets $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($7) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $4, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($15) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $9, Hero calls $9

River: ($33) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $18, Hero calls $18

Total pot: $69
03-01-2009, 10:03 PM
mxiu

stats? seems pretty standard
03-02-2009, 12:40 AM
Deanglow

Not really much else you could do
03-02-2009, 01:02 AM
mxiu

28 steal makes this an easy c/c to the river
03-02-2009, 12:56 PM
yuenjai

i probably 3 bet pf
03-02-2009, 02:38 PM
Parasurama

I think 3b pre is a mistake because you fold most hands that you dominate and his calling range likely is ahead of AQ, obviously villain's fold to 3b stat would be helpful
03-02-2009, 04:52 PM

fold to 3bet obv not significant over 300 hands
03-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Sprayed

If you aren't willing to get it in pre with this hand, then don't 3bet. If you think that you are ahead then fine. But, I think that 3betting AQs against a 15/10 would be suicide and a waste regardless of position. Depending upon the player, I'm normally 3beting if I'm bluffing or when I'm OK with getting it in preflop. Call and see a flop and play it as you did.
03-03-2009, 12:06 AM
Deanglow

I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.
03-03-2009, 01:00 AM
Im_new

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.

++++1
03-03-2009, 05:57 AM
Sprayed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.

Can you explain further as to why it would be better to 3bet/fold to a 4bet with AQs? I would think that we are losing value with this hand and would want to see a flop instead of turning the hand into a bluff.
03-03-2009, 06:14 AM

because he will flat call a lot of the time and AQs is ok with that happening
03-03-2009, 08:23 AM
w272727

i doubt he triple barreled bluffed here..if he did he is an idiot, i think he prob has AK in which case a 3bet would be bad with AQ...not considering table dynamics i think this play is generally fine..
03-03-2009, 07:57 PM
mixchange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprayed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.

Can you explain further as to why it would be better to 3bet/fold to a 4bet with AQs? I would think that we are losing value with this hand and would want to see a flop instead of turning the hand into a bluff.

3betting here is NOT as "bluff" as AQs is *definitely* ahead of a CO or button range. However, just because you're ahead PF doesn't mean you outflop him post-flop.

We 3bet because:

1) Initiative. We 3bet OOP here because we take initiative from CO
2) We have a hand that doesn't flop well about 2/3 the time.
3) Villain will fold a lot on flop with the best hand if we 3bet. So we increase the pot size and increase our chance of taking it down.
03-03-2009, 08:11 PM
badgers

It doesn't matter whether we are ahead of his opening range or not. It is a bluff if he is only continuing with better (which is possible esp. if he's a 24 tabling nitreg).

Calling is def an option also, although @ sprayed - note we are OOP here.
03-03-2009, 08:22 PM
mixchange

we're really talking shades of grey here badgers, i think we're on the same page

if he is ONLY continuing with top 2% of hands well we just 3bet our garbage and flat our premiums. Anyway good point that 3betting here is opponent dependant. I'll call a lot in these types of spots, it's not an auto 3bet.

I didn't mean that this is NEVER a bluff vs. the right opponent, but that it shouldn't be just thought of as a "3b bluff" but as "part of your 3betting range" which vs. some villains will be only be called by better, and others call much wider. We 3b based on opponent.
03-03-2009, 08:31 PM
badgers

yes you're right but I think it's important to make the clarification that it is his calling range that is important. To take it to an extreme, shoving with AT here would be a bluff even though it is ahead of his opening range.But yes I am being deeply pedantic. :)

Calling and 3betting are both options but I would lean towards calling without history or detailed stats...
03-03-2009, 08:32 PM
aka_red

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.

Muahaha I'm going to 4b 100% of my opening range to exploit you!!!
03-03-2009, 09:22 PM
Sprayed

I understand and agree that it is player dependent and I would 3bet a lagtard and be happy to get it in. However, against this guy, there's no way that I'm going to 3bet AQs because I don't want to get it in preflop against his range. I would think that I'm wasting the value of this hand against his range if I 3bet/fold. To me this seems like I'm turning the hand into a bluff. Also, 28% steal is not that out of line.
03-04-2009, 01:14 AM
Deanglow

Quote:

Originally Posted by reDZill4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.

Muahaha I'm going to 4b 100% of my opening range to exploit you!!!

What the hell makes you think I'd ever fold an ace to you
03-04-2009, 01:42 AM
aka_red

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

Quote:

Originally Posted by reDZill4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

I disagree with the "if you aren't getting it in preflop then don't 3bet" idea. I 3bet AQs a lot vs CO and BU from the blinds and often fold to a 4bet.

Muahaha I'm going to 4b 100% of my opening range to exploit you!!!

What the hell makes you think I'd ever fold an ace to you

My powerful all-in betsizing! :D
03-29-2009, 06:26 AM
BankItDrew

*BUMP*