I don't get it 400nl

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03-10-2009, 03:57 PM
meeloche

I don't get it 400nl

Villain is a 24/17/5 type. I haven't played with him very much all I know about him is he felted JJ bvb vs me a couple of sessions ago with no history.

I don't really know here his value range is pretty tiny but I don't know how much he's bluffing here?

No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Hero (UTG) ($448)
MP ($255.65)
Button ($164)
SB ($417)
BB ($400)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
Hero bets $16, 3 folds, BB calls $12

Flop: ($34) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $24, BB calls $24

Turn: ($82) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $60, Hero calls $60

River: ($202) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $104, Hero?
03-10-2009, 04:08 PM
Da GOAT

gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often
03-10-2009, 04:24 PM
ATOTHEC101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often

disagree, villain is semi competent and will play better ax's and even boats the same here as he realises you'll be checking behind most of your range on the turn, even your rag aces, plus his river bet looks like it's for pure value, fold river imo.
03-10-2009, 04:28 PM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often

disagree, villain is semi competent and will play better ax's and even boats the same here as he realises you'll be checking behind most of your range on the turn, even your rag aces, plus his river bet looks like it's for pure value.

If anyone is checking back their rag aces here.. I will smack them!

I'm kind of meh on this river. I think its close and isn't really a big mistake either way.

His sizing is weird small... which looks like value town but also I'd expect a strong hand to want to fill it up and stack us if we have trips.

Sooo... I probably station call it.
03-10-2009, 04:33 PM
Da GOAT

nobody said he is competent
03-10-2009, 04:55 PM
ATOTHEC101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

nobody said he is competent

meh 24/17/5 types are semi competent a large percentage of the time.
03-10-2009, 05:15 PM
gabe

doesnt seem like he has a boat.......shove?
03-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Alexos

i think i like shoving better than calling, i also like folding better than calling
03-10-2009, 06:36 PM
yourfather

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

gotta call it, if he has a big hand he will slowplay turn most often

disagree, villain is semi competent and will play better ax's and even boats the same here as he realises you'll be checking behind most of your range on the turn, even your rag aces, plus his river bet looks like it's for pure value.

If anyone is checking back their rag aces here.. I will smack them!

A little tough love lol. Umm for those who say shoving good, I don't get it. Are we expecting to fold out better AX hands? Are we expecting worse hands to call?
03-10-2009, 06:36 PM
IowaSkinsFan

I guess you guys have more of a grasp of what he has than i do? I'd probably call and just be totally confused in the entire hand.
03-10-2009, 06:59 PM
bjsaust

I would just call. Only thing I can see him having that makes sense is TT, but like Goat says he'll slowplay that a lot. I think he just has a bluff a lot.
03-10-2009, 07:38 PM
bspahn

not sure if shoving is that great here, is he calling a shove with hands like Tx / KK / QQ etc?

wa/wb basically
03-10-2009, 07:41 PM
meeloche

How I read his line was I'm not expected to double this card very often with air so if he wants to get value he has to lead this turn. Again I'm not really sure cause its not a line I see others take very often. With his river bet size I dunno how he expects it to fold out much of my turn range either.
03-10-2009, 08:06 PM
ATOTHEC101

Quote:

Originally Posted by bspahn

not sure if shoving is that great here, is he calling a shove with hands like Tx / KK / QQ etc?

wa/wb basically

The shove would be a bluff trying to get him off ax better kick, as I would have thought he bets bigger on the river with a boat. His hand looks like aq,aj to me.
03-10-2009, 10:12 PM
bspahn

so we're repping A8/AT/TT/88 and when we shove he's getting 3:1 with his AJ/AQ type hand, i'm just not sure this is going to be a great situation for us... but it's an interesting line I suppose
03-11-2009, 10:30 AM
Outlaw

Board: As Ac 7h Ts 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.411% 27.40% 13.01% 20 9.50 { Ad5d }
Hand 1: 59.589% 46.58% 13.01% 34 9.50 { JJ-66, A2s+, 87s, A2o+ }

Seems to me he is leading out on the turn to protect against a flush or bet his FD.. so I stuck 78s in there. Does this range seem reasonable?
03-11-2009, 11:47 AM
Jason

It looks like he could definitely have an ace, but you're getting 3 to 1. Unless you have some better reads to contrary, which you've stated you don't, I don't see how you can fold. Basically the question comes down to how often will villain have a hand like A6, A5, A4, A3, A2, 7x, 10x, 8x, a busted spade draw, pocket pair, busted str8 draw, or air? If you think he'll have any of those type hands 1 out of 4 times or more, then call. If not, then fold. I'd probably call.

I'm not a big fan of shoving without a better read because I DO think an ace is very possible and would prefer not to risk any more of our $196 (what villain has) left of $244 (what we have left after a call) than I had to. If we shove and villain has any of the hands we beat, it's pretty likely he's not going to call, so we gain no value. If he has any of the hands that have us beat or tied, he's getting the same 3 to 1 price we are and he'd be in the same predicament and equally hard pressed to fold, so I don't see a lot of fold equity because we're just not deep enough (or more precisely, villain is not deep enough) and don't have enough behind to make a bluff work.
03-11-2009, 12:15 PM
griffey24

I feel like any time I decide to get creative in this type of spot and shove river, I always get called by any Ax here. This could be an image thing, not sure, but I'd probably avoid shoving here myself.

I'm not sure on villain here, but if I'm villain I might even be value towning with KK/QQ here if he ever gets there like this. Wouldn't be surprised to see some nonsense like 7x spades either some time.
03-11-2009, 05:39 PM
dev

The shove also could fold out a lot of chops.

Outlaw, there's one thing I don't like about your ranges. Is he flatting a raise oop with AQ+?