QQ on A high board

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03-27-2009, 03:51 AM
AFchung

QQ on A high board

25/15 over 160 hands

Should I have called that river bet? I had no intention of calling a river bet until a 2nd ace came which lowered his chances of having one

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

MP1 ($26.50)
Hero (MP2) ($25)
CO ($77.05)
Button ($5)
SB ($25)
BB ($24.25)
UTG ($10.85)
UTG+1 ($24.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.50, 5 folds, MP1 calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.60) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($3.60) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $2, Hero calls $2

River: ($7.60) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $4, Hero calls $4

Total pot: $15.60 | Rake: $0.75
03-27-2009, 04:47 AM

I think this is fine against an aggressive opponent
so it basically goes back to reads
03-27-2009, 06:24 AM
oskar

In that spot, against a limp caller IP I'd always c-bet that board. The problem with checking behind is you're really turning your cards face up.
I'd probably turn it into a bluff on the turn. with 15% pfr he's not limping Ax hands that can stand multiple barrels and you're getting the odd draws to pay you off.
As played definitely call turn, and river kind of sucks because Ax is still a lot more likely than TT,JJ 9x, and he pretty much knows what you have :)
03-27-2009, 08:55 AM
OneEyeLefty

After the raise pre-flop I have to C-bet the flop. As of the river, I have no idea where I am in the hand. I have to muck the river with the progressive betting pattern. I just don't like the fact we didn't try to find out where we were in the hand with QQ post flop.

Lefty
03-27-2009, 09:13 AM
texa8

I cbet A high board after taking initiative PF 80% +.. that changes the whole hand. as played, I'm not sure about calling that river bet. sure, if a second A hits and it's checked to you, diff story. but he bet out and I think
you're beat here too often.
03-27-2009, 03:27 PM
AFchung

why cbet in position and risk getting CR bluffed, when we can pot control and try to get to showdown?
03-27-2009, 04:39 PM
tanglelegs

iopq

i agree on knowing the player lots of people raise after the a flop to feel out the players
03-27-2009, 05:26 PM
St8ofN8

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

In that spot, against a limp caller IP I'd always c-bet that board. The problem with checking behind is you're really turning your cards face up.

This is what I was going to say. Definitely cbet this flop. As played - on the river I think it comes down to reads. I really don't hate your call though. Its a small enough bet for me not to be too upset if he has an A or KK.
03-27-2009, 09:04 PM
RML604

I would be interested to hear from everyone who is advocating c-betting this board why we are c-betting this board? I would like to see you put villain on a range, and then show what his check/calling range is and his check/fold range, and then show why our c-bet on the flop is profitable.

I think this is a clear case of checking behind a hand that's WA/WB, but has plenty of showdown value, but am interested to hear from the c-bet camp.
03-28-2009, 12:17 AM
PlayToWin

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

why cbet in position ....... when we can pot control and try to get to showdown?

I'm pretty sure this is what Spenda advises. It's better to go into calling mode and keep worse hands in. Calling Spenda......
03-28-2009, 12:58 AM
bigspenda73

bleh, could go either way, a lot of it depends on how he plays his draws postflop. 160 hands in, those are some kewl numbers but the only thing they tell us is he limps behind or coldcalls a decent amount which means he has plenty of sc's in his range here.

Bet/fold flop or check behind and not folding are both viable options. Cannot fold this river for the price against this players PF range.
03-28-2009, 01:06 AM
OneEyeLefty

The C-bet may give us some info on what we are up against. He's certainly got a wide range here. If he has 78 of clubs he's calling my C-bet for sure. I just like to have some idea what I am up against. If he raises, I can muck. If he lets one come off, I can slow down if it's scary, as in this case. If not, I can lead out again. Either way, I am not guessing.

Xxxxx
03-29-2009, 12:30 AM
lytstephe

Quote:

Originally Posted by RML604

I would be interested to hear from everyone who is advocating c-betting this board why we are c-betting this board? I would like to see you put villain on a range, and then show what his check/calling range is and his check/fold range, and then show why our c-bet on the flop is profitable.

I think this is a clear case of checking behind a hand that's WA/WB, but has plenty of showdown value, but am interested to hear from the c-bet camp.

IMO This is not necessarily a WA/WB situation since the board is two-toned, and also if he has mid-pair it gives him a redraw for two-pair/set. In a situation like this you have to make decisions AS IF your opponent does not have an ace. Bet for value and hope to suck out all the +EV from mid-pairs and flush draws. If he has an ace, he might snap back at you in which case you know you can fold. By betting it gives you much more of a read, rather than letting him have a read on you.

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