200NL: KK and an apparent donk

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04-09-2009, 10:52 AM
d0zer

200NL: KK and an apparent donk

villain 91/66 over 12 hands

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG gamesman09 ($177.10)
UTG+1 Phwap ($200.00)
CO GunTucker45 ($159.75)
BTN GeniusEC ($200.00)
SB mjrnt ($221.70)
BB Hero ($348.75)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BB :ks: :kh:
gamesman09 raises to $8, 4 folds, Hero raises to $24, gamesman09 calls $16

Flop: :5h: :3c: :qs: ($49, 2 players)
Hero bets $26, gamesman09 calls $26

Turn: :4c: ($101, 2 players) Hero...checks?

Was talking this hand over with some tosser last night, and the tosser was saying this villain's range is too weak to handle two barrels, so a check is good here. Conventional wisdom is zomg overpair + donk = keep betting till the money's in the middle, but his range is very weak so maybe we should be checking to induce, or to get more value from his underpairs on the river.

That being said, I really wanted to play for stacks here and felt like I had to bet the turn to setup a river shove that wasn't an overshove, also I didn't really know anything about how v played postflop -- if inducing was even worthwhile. I think we've all seen bad donks call three streets with underpairs in worse spots than this, but maybe that frequency isn't high enough for all 3?

Is this all just a whole lot of overthinking of a standard spot?
04-09-2009, 11:31 AM
griffey24

Re: 200NL: KK and an apparent donk

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

Is this all just a whole lot of overthinking of a standard spot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

villain 91/66 over 12 hands

Not double barelling here is pretty ridiculous vs this villain. For one thing, these donks aren't ever folding anything (any pair) here so I don't see why we wouldn't bet bet bet.

Another thing is that this type of villain is prob the MOST likely to peel preflop AND flop with any Ax type hand and now has an insider that he'll never fold.
04-09-2009, 11:36 AM
Alexos

And conventional wisdom prevails... BET!
04-09-2009, 02:04 PM
TheLeakyFaucet

yeah no reason to get fancy at all here... really std bet/jam riv
04-09-2009, 03:29 PM
ATOTHEC101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexos

And conventional wisdom prevails... BET!

lol this, you should also increase your 3 bet size oop, i generally make it 4x pfr, but $28 seems good here, only a little thing but meh.

edit: scrap 28, hes probably gonna call a bigger 3 bet looking at his early stats, make it $32+
04-09-2009, 04:11 PM
bode

yeah 3bet's kind of small OOP, but bet/bet/bet should be standard here for sure.
04-09-2009, 06:33 PM
JL

$30 preflop
$50 on the flop
Shove turn

These guys just don't ever fold the flop when they catch any piece of it.
04-09-2009, 07:49 PM
bigspenda73

i like the sizing, something like $44 on the turn and get the rest in on the river
04-09-2009, 08:31 PM
mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

i like the sizing, something like $44 on the turn and get the rest in on the river

Nah I think 1/2 pot on the flop is perfect but I'd go bigger preflop. Just think about how rarely someone has to be folding preflop in order to play 91/66 and we should want as much money in preflop as we can. I might even raise to like $35.
04-09-2009, 08:51 PM
bjsaust

I tend to get a bit silly with my 3-bets with AA/KK v's people who cant fold. Too much value not to 3-bet extra large if we're confident they'll call a lot. Get the money now incase they completely miss the flop and find they have a fold button.
04-14-2009, 04:56 PM
STHollywood

Re: 200NL: KK and an apparent donk

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0zer

villain 91/66 over 12 hands

$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG gamesman09 ($177.10)
UTG+1 Phwap ($200.00)
CO GunTucker45 ($159.75)
BTN GeniusEC ($200.00)
SB mjrnt ($221.70)
BB Hero ($348.75)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is BB :ks: :kh:
gamesman09 raises to $8, 4 folds, Hero raises to $24, gamesman09 calls $16

Flop: :5h: :3c: :qs: ($49, 2 players)
Hero bets $26, gamesman09 calls $26

Turn: :4c: ($101, 2 players) Hero...checks?

Was talking this hand over with some tosser last night, and the tosser was saying this villain's range is too weak to handle two barrels, so a check is good here. Conventional wisdom is zomg overpair + donk = keep betting till the money's in the middle, but his range is very weak so maybe we should be checking to induce, or to get more value from his underpairs on the river.

That being said, I really wanted to play for stacks here and felt like I had to bet the turn to setup a river shove that wasn't an overshove, also I didn't really know anything about how v played postflop -- if inducing was even worthwhile. I think we've all seen bad donks call three streets with underpairs in worse spots than this, but maybe that frequency isn't high enough for all 3?

Is this all just a whole lot of overthinking of a standard spot?

Some tosser? You must be from Australia or England. And obviously bet bet bet bet