Interesting hand 200nl deep

Villain had not been 3betting very much at all, maybe about 12% or so, though he had been starting to 4bet a ton once we got deep. I had 4bet him maybe 4 times before this in the previous 45 minutes, two of which he called, two of which he folded. He had not 5b me up until this point.

Questions as to preflop line, flop bet sizing, turn line, and river decision are all up in the air.... I've been struggling quite a bit arguing with a lot of friends as to what to do here....

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (2 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($432)
Hero (Button) ($529.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif
Hero bets $5, SB raises $18, Hero raises $44, SB raises $80, Hero calls $50

Flop: ($200) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $75, SB calls $75

Turn: ($350) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($350) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $257 (All-In), [color=#666666]

I think pre is completely standard in terms of bet sizing by both of you... I'm a little confused with his 5-bet size.

If he hasn't gotten out of line too much with the 5-betting, I think I check behind on that flop. TT, JJ are certainly in his range, but I would actually prefer some pot control there. Once you bet you have a really gay spr, and folding on either turn or river will suck big.

I don't see how river isn't a pretty easy fold, unless he was on a total bluff pre, then just decided to delayed float your "I noes u has AK and I make you call" - bet and pump the river.
If you think he's capable of turning JJ into a bluff... I would just look for someone else to play with :P
gg

I know it sucks when all you can really give him is KK or TT, but then he might be doing it with AA for value, hoping you'll level yourself or sumthin... idk

I'm just starting with 100NL HU fwiw... and trying to stay away from deep-stacked play unless villain is retarded.

If you are flatting 5 bets HU 200 bb's deep with QQ you are definitely going to find yourself getting into very hard post flop decisions like these. Shoving pre in this spot is the best line BY FAR imo.

So you are saying, sb makes it 80, hero should 6b all in for 432? ... This just can't possibly seem good to me ... I'd rather just make it something like 150-160 then call it off....

This is something I've been arguing quite a bit about, thinking when I have QQ/JJ in this spot this deep I need to be getting those in, and I need to be flatting AA/KK more often. Thoughts?

There are a lot of spots where you can get QQ in pre even deep-stacked easily, but not really against someone who 3-bets 12% and you just got 5-bet. You're not going to 4-bet bluff him.
It would be interesting to see both of your stats, unless the dynamics have changed - because 12% 3-bet is really nitty unless you open like <65% of your buttons.

I really don't like the bet on the flop that much. You're trying to protect against a 6-outer and make TT, JJ call, but you're really setting yourself up for a lot of pain with only a psb behind for 2 streets, with a hand that barely has 50% equity against his range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshall28

So you are saying, sb makes it 80, hero should 6b all in for 432? ... This just can't possibly seem good to me ... I'd rather just make it something like 150-160 then call it off....

This is something I've been arguing quite a bit about, thinking when I have QQ/JJ in this spot this deep I need to be getting those in, and I need to be flatting AA/KK more often. Thoughts?

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Yeah getting it in is what I meant. I like making it something like 182 cuz if he just calls you can shove flop for 2/3 pot.

If you think you're opponent is going to double and triple barrel bluff often in 4bet + spots than I would def flat AA/KK depending on game flow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

There are a lot of spots where you can get QQ in pre even deep-stacked easily, but not really against someone who 3-bets 12% and you just got 5-bet.

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I think It's fine to be getting it in for 200 bb against someone who is 3 betting 12%. JJ Maybe not.

I think this is a spot where you guys are relying too much on stats and not enough on game flow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshall28

...starting to 4bet a ton once we got deep. I had 4bet him maybe 4 times before this in the previous 45 minutes, two of which he called, two of which he folded

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This is really the biggest piece of information we need. He's been aggro and we've been aggro and I feel like he'll make a much looser call if we shove than if we 5bet but it really depends on how much respect we give him.

id fold

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

id fold

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To the 5 bet? Why?

I would not play this hand against a guy that 3-bets 12% of the time, after that pre-flop raise. He could easily have AA,KK,AK,99,1010.

river is such an easy fold.

I dont bet the flop.

as played i dont see why you'd do anything on the turn but check.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Massimo

river is such an easy fold.

I dont bet the flop.

as played i dont see why you'd do anything on the turn but check.

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Massimo,

Would you mind expanding a bit as to why you don't bet the flop? What do you think a check behind accomplishes? What problems does making a bet here give me?--because I have to say I felt pretty confident at the time that my hand was good.


Also, yeah clearly the river is a fold I beat nothing but JJ turned into a bluff which is super unlikely, but the rest of the play in the hand seems very up in the air to me. A more detailed breakdown would be much much appreciated. : )