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Would love to hear some thoughts on 3betting on the button, I seriously am thinking im losing a absolute ton by not 3 betting tons in this spot. Obv sorry for this post being general but how much are some of you pounding on CO opens exactly for example/
my 3b on the button sucks, I'm going to do it more
but it's super opponent-dependent
basically Ive decided to focus on trying it a hell of alot more before I start each session.
How can i check my stat in HEM?
I dont think its as opp dependent as you think,
vs weaktight tag or nit - its easy, tons of FE or shutdown postflop alot when called unless we hit a monster or board is bad for his range.
vs station - we wont do it with a polarised range as we would to a nit
vs solid regs - why not
In going to focus on this some in the future, surely im missing a ton of value on the button.
lol, i hope you see the irony here. 3betting in any position should be opponent specific outside of QQ+/AK basically. There are plenty of things to consider to adjust your 3balling range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Da GOAT
that said, 3betting on the button is incredibly profitable.
ive only been doing aggressive 3betting out of the blinds. my button 3b is almost the same as any non-blind seat
lol bode i messed up my post
But AFchung i think im in a similiar position to yoruself.
against a tag that doesn't play back and sits there and takes it for 2K hands straight I wouldn't be suprised if 3bing ATC against a CO raiser would be profitable OTBQuote:
Originally Posted by AFchung
I mean he's only going to want to play for stacks with like top 4% of his hands and he's opening what, 20% from the CO?
you have 80% fold equity
worse, these people adjust by calling and c/f the flop when they miss
Da GOAT: I saw a LAG at 100NL once and 3bing was definitely just asking to get raped post-flop even if he's OOP because he's not just going to rape you by 4bing a lot, he's also going to call and like c/r every second flop
Even though he was running 54/40 or something stupid like that, I definitely felt outclassed
I've actually stopped 3betting as much IP. Negating some of our positional advantage by ballooning the pot on early streets allows the opponent to play better vs us.
OOP i will polarize more with hands I can't call with but IP I am fine taking a flop vs guys that will lose more than they should 100BB+
sup jyms, i dont get your negating position thing.
also im 3betting hands IP i dont wanna call with sometimes too
I failed to mention that I don't 3bet hands I can call with profitably negating the positional advantage of those hands, Like SC and gappers. I will 3bet more broadway offsuit and suited A type hands that calling would not be a good situation IP.
most of the 3bets are vs either loose CO opens, nit EP openers that call 3bets and fold flops or just against guys that are easily predictable post flop.
yeah but if we don't feel that calling IP with A9o would be profitable, it's a great hand for a 3b bluffQuote:
Originally Posted by jyms
similarly, if we have KQo on the CO and we feel that the BU or the blinds can squeeze and the MP opens we shouldn't be too happy about calling and should probably just make a loose 3b that is not really for value but is also not a 100% bluff, just a hand we don't want to call with
or even BU entering the pot just makes it uncomfortable
I've mucked KQo in a similar position before and I think we have every right to 3b
ok but how often are ppl here 3betting J8s, 97s, 75s type stuff. meh even offsuits of those hands are fine to 3bet. such hands are 3bet or fold right
goat I'm flatting almost always with those types of hands if I'm not folding
lol meh its all close really, im just struggling to articulate :P
Suited I think I call way more than 3bet. Offsuit I would 3bet/fold for sure, mostly fold. OOP I 3bet those and don't even look at the offsuit versions. I just stopped looking for places to 3bet guys IP that don't fold pre . I found I tend to play way too many flops in 3bet pots where c-betting is more spewy than just calling in games where you can still get paid. This is so much more than just 3betting and position. Somoleaus had a great interview on this at BFP and I have found it to really help my 3betting problems. Then again, my games at the moment are too loose and stationy where as if you can get a ton of folds then I would open the 3betting up to take down more pre/flop pots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
you're prob overvaluing your ability to play some hands postflop.;.
its probably a lot more profitable to 3bet 34s up to maybe 78s, T8s type hands... its just hands that wont flop TP a lot and are very tricky to play postflop profitably... whereas a hand like QJs has alot more showdown value postflop so it makes more sense to flat it pre
samoleus is a sick hand reader so for him it makes sense to keep pots small even with trashy sc's, but for most its prolly spew to call pre
My btn 3b% is ~9.5. I agree with alexos, there are a lot of hands that seem easy to play in position vs. a pre-flop raiser but are almost certainly unprofitable... low sc's and suited gappers come to mind. I like to 3bet a wide range from the btn, something like premiums, some Axo's, high suited gappers, low sc's, high offsuit connectors... something like that.
thats great guys, quite a highish 3bet % zook. cool tho it def gives me something to think about.
i agree with alexos, im not a fan of calling on btn IP.
glad you guys have mentioned a range i chose are best to 3bet ;)
I think the range is fine. I may be 3betting less than that for sure (~7%) but I am basically 3betting my best non calling range hands to polarize. I suspect my range to change depending on the players, I am just playing in such bad games right now that I am not getting many folds preflop/flop. Not being a great hand reader makes this an easy spot to spew on later streets vs weak/loose players. I think I mentioned that if I could get more folds I would widen my 3betting range for sure. I just don't like 3betting too many hands that have no TP value when called pre. QJs+ I 3bet often enough as well as 34s-67s.
I need to work on this, my btn 3-bet is probably only around 3-4%. I keep finding excuses not to do it.
that's why it's opponent-dependentQuote:
Originally Posted by jyms
you should get like 60% folds from tags until they get sick of you
3bet a ton and do it small, I don't get the ppl 3betting more from the blinds than the button, there are specific ppl I'm 3betting more from the SB but not the BB
then start 3betting to like 2.5x and fucking with all the taggfishQuote:
Originally Posted by jyms
agree. agree. agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Well, if you 3x from the BB on my BU open I'm going to call with any reasonable hand and fuck with you post-flop. Not a great result for a light 3b. Unless I know the guy is a nit and won't float pf I'd prefer to make it bigger to make it a bigger mistake to call with a worse hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
what I meant by "more" was a higher frequency which I believe is how zook interpreted it but not you
yeah I misinterpretted it because you were talking about size in the same sentenceQuote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
but what I like to do is 3b a shitload vs. an SB open it's pretty much printing money since some people open like 40% from the SB
My 3bet% from the button this month is 13%..wooops.
I'm def 3. Betting more often in an than btn I feel. Time to up my stats, I think bj hit it when I make an excuse not to do it or men won't bother. Also STD raise is 3x IP.