Set deep (100nl)

Villain is taggy, around 20/17 with 9% 3bet. 80% cbet with 100% (3/3) in 3bet pots.

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($129.41)
SB ($307.55)
BB ($303)
UTG ($70.92)
MP ($48.85)
Hero (CO) ($228.70)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
2 folds, Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, SB raises $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $9

Flop: ($26) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets $16, Hero calls $16

Turn: ($58) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $40


Hows sizing? I figure its a spot he's likely either going to call or not so went to the larger size. Take a different line altogether?












{edited title: jyms}

Fold preflop.

Bet enough on the turn to have a under psb shove on river. so 50 on the turn shove river.

Even over 200bbs deep fold this oop? Because he has enough bluffs in his range?

um ok somebody who does the math thing can figure out if you have set odds or not. I was thinking more of a playability thing and yeah he's not gonna be air tight here with his 3 betting range so that's bad for you. I guess its probably ok its just gonna be pretty hard to play post.

I think he has the set odds. It's a small 3bet given stack size and he has position post flop, fwiw.

But What's opponent's range for 3betting from the SB? 9% 3bet overall and he is raising a Cutoff open. Lot's of weak aces, PPs and suited connectors in his range?

Given flop bet sizing, turn bet might be too strong unless you know SB can't fold TP or will spazz. Checking behind seems bad, but I'd imagine you will get a fold on this turn alot.

I dont think sizing will make much difference. There might be some chance he'll call $30 but not $40, but not a lot I wouldn't think. The real question is whether theres value checking behind, but meh, I have a set and I'd like to play a big pot against his pot controlling AX than win a medium pot against something.

he's only calling one street with his week Ax hands and all underpairs he has, and the river is the place to get value from those hands. I suppose he can have a AT type hand here trying to pot control, but i think thats a small part of his range in this spot.

ya I think checking behind and getting some value from SB's entire range on river is probably your best shot at moneys.

I def call pre, we have set odds this deep plus we're in position. I actually bet smaller on turn if it's me as I have so many floats in my range on this sort of board vs alot of regs that I want to balance my bet sizing when i have air/ strong ace etc, I.e I'm never betting $50 with a bluff in this spot, probs something like $38-40 this deep and when we're 100-125 bbs deep something like $22-28. However I doubt you have an agro dynamic with this guy and his range is fairly polarised to hands that will call another barrel (ax +) or simply c/f, so I guess betting bigger for value i.e. $46-50 is fine.


God theres so many dynamics to take into consideration, against several regs I play against checking behind is better as they figure you never check turn with a hand better than aj+ so they c/r river as a bluff, whilst some spaz to small turn bets, flop minraises etc. At 100nl this guy is probs straight forward so just c/c, bet, bet is fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedcake

ya I think checking behind and getting some value from SB's entire range on river is probably your best shot at moneys.

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Nonononono! You can't win his whole stack if you check behind!

I'm def. betting the turn against pretty much everyone. I don't get why we think he's going to c/c the the river more than the turn if it goes check-check. If anything our hand looks more like a float if we bet the turn.

Well obviously I'd like his whole stack. He never pot controls AK/AQ here this deep?

I only have a bit over 100 hands on him, so no real dynamics. Only time we've seen a flop in a 3-bet pot he raised utg, I 3-bet from the blinds and he folded to my cbet on a QJXr flop.

I felt it was less about getting his stack, than the likelyhood his holdings are polarised to those that call and those that fold, is there that much that an unknown TAG will fold to a turn bet but would call a river bet? Do they fold QQ/KK in a spot like this or call one street and evaluate the river?

Why are we aiming to maximize the pot size and not maximise value against the range of hands you beat?

Bet whatever you would on a float. Then value bet the river barring some reason to play the hand differently.

I think the turn is a good spot to check IF YOU HAVE NOTHING
and then you bet the river, your hand looks like a pot controlling ace and you get folds because people won't give you a credit for a float if you check turn to bet river (this of course assumes the villain is cogniscent of floats)

when you do have something bet the turn, it looks like a float

This is silly, hero played it correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

This is silly, hero played it correct.

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what pps are you calling pf here? I normally call TT/JJ and shove QQ+, 88-

We r 200bb deep so I'd call JJ- like always.

We r 200bb deep so I'd call JJ- like always.

150bb+ deep against opponents that don't suck my 3-bet range is very polarized. I flat QQ a lot outside of certain high-aggression spots.

pf is a standard call in my book, definitely bet the turn we need to attemt to play for stacks here.

I don't think going for his stack is necessarily the right idea. There isn't a whole lot that he's playing that way that he'll be stacking off with. I bet about the same on the turn because it looks like a float, and hopefully he was trying to induce a bet or makes a hero call, but I think he's going to fold a lot on the turn or river.
If I was floating in this spot I'd check the turn behind and make a v-bet sized bluff on the river, because it looks much stronger imo.

And what's all that talk about set value? U haz pair imo... also: position.
I could be raising or calling depending on dynamic. I don't think I ever folded in this spot. You definitely don't need to get your implied whatever back when you hit a set... unless you just give up when you miss - which would be terribad against this guy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

If I was floating in this spot I'd check the turn behind and make a v-bet sized bluff on the river, because it looks much stronger imo.

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Doesn't this get called a shitload more by all his PPs?

Deep wouldn't you not want to float turn though and keep building? The problem is in not letting him catch anything. If the A is a scare on the flop for him then it's not going to help giving a free river. Higher pps can out draw, and crappier broadways that didn't hit flop but hit river are still scared of the ace.

Is this really a thread?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FlyingSaucy

Deep wouldn't you not want to float turn though and keep building? The problem is in not letting him catch anything. If the A is a scare on the flop for him then it's not going to help giving a free river. Higher pps can out draw, and crappier broadways that didn't hit flop but hit river are still scared of the ace.

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are we really worried about giving someone a free shot at a 2 outer? and if we're capable of floating this flop, and we check through the turn, villain can call a river bet with 99+ as well as sometimes with KQ type hands that catch a pair on the river.

I'd rather have a shot at maximizing value for this one hand than a crap shoot for his whole stack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silly String

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oskar

If I was floating in this spot I'd check the turn behind and make a v-bet sized bluff on the river, because it looks much stronger imo.

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Doesn't this get called a shitload more by all his PPs?

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Depends who I'm playing. But against a somewhat thinking player, I kind of like to delay the betting. You're representing a reasonable range, like an ace with a middle kicker - like you don't think you can get value for two more streets.
Against a level-0 donk who doesn't waste a calorie thinking about your hand, sure, I'd bet the turn as a bluff... it really looks like a textbook float though.

Why does such a std hand get a million replies?

Obv call pre, flat or even raise flop if u have the image for it, obv bet turn... 40-45$ is fine

you have to try really hard to mess up in this spot

WELL OF FUCKING COURSE HES GOING TO BE FOLDING A LOT ON THE GOD DAMN TURN OR RIVER. HE CHECKED THE FUCKING TURN. HE PROBABLY DOESNT FUCKING HAVE AK+ A WHOLE LOT. WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD THAT MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD CHECK THE TURN AND BET THE RIVER, MAKING YOUR HAND LOOK EVEN LESS LIKE A BLUFF. YOU HAVE EIGHTS FULL OF GOD DAMN THREES WITH A TON OF STACK BEHIND. FFS. AND WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE FOLD IN POSITION PREFLOP OVER 200BB DEEP. I WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO FOLD 85 OFFSUIT HERE.

{locked}

'nuff said...


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