5/10 live river bet sizing problem

This is actually a mid stakes hand, but I think it's interesting enough and the kind of thinking you guys do best and the psychology doesn't really fit for any other forum.

$5/10 NLHE 7 handed

My image is semi-tight tricky very aggressive.

My opponent is semi-loose/passiveish but a thinker. Over a month ago he ran well against me and has picked me off quite a few times. He knows I'll bet the flop light and follow through on good turns to bluff. That said, he's not exactly rolling in the dough and seems a tad tighter and more careful today. He gives my big river bets a lot of respect.

loose/passive limps from EP.
I make it $50 from the CO
BN + SB insta-muck (I pick my seats g00t)
opponent calls from the BB.
Limper has had enough of me and cries uncle

$110ish in the pot
:Qd: :8c: :4h:
BB checks, I bet $75, BB calls
Flop bet size is pretty standard. Sometimes I go smaller on dry boards, although it may be trouble to live donks trying to hand read me.

$260ish in the pot
:kd:
BB checks, I bet $200, BB calls
I like the big turn bet as I tend to polarize my turn bets and either want to blow him off his flop peels or win very big pots when I think I got him second best.

$660ish in the pot about $500 behind
:4c:
BB checks...

What's my best play here when I don't want to check behind?

Option A: Bet like $200, $250 or even $300ish to maximize the range he looks me up with so I can try to value bet him with my good one pair hands. However, this may make players more inclined to call down my second barrels knowing I'll lay a price on a showdown with my value range.

Option B: Bet like $350ish to $400ish to avoid the psychology of calling an all-in but give a logical progression of bet sizing.

Option C: Shove here a lot because doing so with any two cards would show a profit and he might hero call our value range if he's tilted enough or thinks our line looks bluffy per his understanding of how the game should be played.

For extra credit, put both of us on ranges.

Well we could skew our ranges and standardise our betsize or standardise our betsize and skew our ranges. Personally I'm going to go with the later option because it's easier to manage and harder to read.

Since I'm going to end up with so much air in this spot I'm going to want max. FE more often than a big call and so I'm going to use shove as my standard betsize, bet my full air range and alter my value range accordingly as best as I can based on my feeling about his calling range at the time.

I don't think the psychology of calling an all-in will be a large factor at all here because the villain is actively looking to outplay us.

So I guess I'm option C.

I think this might be what you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

I think this might be what you're looking for.

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Thank you!

In a live game, if i had a bluff here, my betsizing would be smaller on all streets. And depending on my image it just might be smaller period.

Also, on the river, i would hopefully have a much better idea what he had because of my physical reads. From a pure blind range standpoint, i'd say he probably has JT, 8xdd (but if he does i think you'll be able to tell), otherwise probably KQ (if a 4 didn't come i'd say 44 is a possibility), maybe AQ. I dont think you can get him off KQ so i shove all my value hands. If you put him on JT or 8xdd i bet like 250. If you put him on AQ maybe 350.

You bet so big, his hand is ridiculously undefined and may be stronger than you think. I'm not sure anyones gonna be much help here. Luckily, on the river, the best card in the deck came and your decision became easier.

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Originally Posted by Massimo

my betsizing would be smaller on all streets. And depending on my image it just might be smaller period.

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Can you elaborate on this?

Anyway, I had :4s: :5s: here. My turn bet was pretty meh. He seemed to have tighted up and it was a goodish card to barrel to get him off 8x, 4x and pocket pairs.

On the river I really had no clue what he had. His range is too wide pre-flop and post-flop I really didn't think he was strong here. So I bet $350 and he insta-mucked.

For what it's worth, here are my common betting lines:

Open to $40, single caller
$60 flop, $150 turn

Open to $40, two callers
$80 flop, $200 turn

Open to $40, three callers
$120 flop, $300 turn

Isolate to $50 single caller
$75 flop, $200 turn

Isolate to $50 two callers
$100 flop, $250 turn

In other spots I do the math and the pot is probably so bloated that the 2nd bet is a shove.

I use my turn bets to brush off light peels, apply real stack pressure and swing for fences with my best hands. When I want a cheap showdown, induce a bluff or cheap cards I just check behind.

I have an image as a player that puts a lot of pressure on people and many of the regulars make very tight/silly pre-flop folds to me which I just love because it allows me to play heads-up and three way pots with the table donator more often than I would have with a softer image.

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Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Massimo

my betsizing would be smaller on all streets. And depending on my image it just might be smaller period.

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Can you elaborate on this?

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It's just going to be a better betsize for most of your range. 1) your opponent will define his hand better because he's less likely to slowplay 2) you can bluff with less money and it'll usually accomplish the same thing, i think you may find it more comfortable in general. If you actually have a monster just use big betsizing no one is smart enough to give a shit.

There's the fact that the king appears to be a scare card you'll barrel very often, which widens his turn calling range if he's thinking. Then all the types of questions come into play like "does he know you follow through on your bluffs?" "Do you not always barrel "scare" cards?" "Does he realize you know if you have AA you can now beat KQ?" ...

It's tough to say, but if he was suspicious of you on the turn, I think it's a great spot to make a shove since the 4 clearly couldn't have helped you (unless you had AA) and your range should also already be considered polarized by your turn bet, plus his range appears to be pretty weak, like AQ/QJ/QT/8xdd, he has to make a hero call no matter what size the bet is, so I say make it big.

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Originally Posted by Marshall28

plus his range appears to be pretty weak, like AQ/QJ/QT/8xdd.

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Lots of utter shit like Q5s and 85s is in his range. AQ would be a bloodly monster of a hand for him!